Prime Fedor simply had a level of athleticism that is still unmatched in HW MMA

[Greyscale]

Your MMA knowledge is weak, you bunch of trolls.

While there was no testing in PRIDE, everyone fought with no testing, so it proves nothing.
Fedor fought in US where guys from the same card were caught for roids - Barnett, Vitor, Randleman,
Fedor never popped, unlike your heroes like Jones, AS, Reem and Hendo ,who used TRT, which is unfair advantage.

34 years with 33 high level fights .. that's more than LEsnar and Cain combined... that's called MILEAGE.

If you don't understand what's Mileage, what 34 fights do to your body, then you understand jack shit about fighting,
anatomy and medicine.

GSP and Khabib retired at the same age Fedor declined with less fights.

GSP only returned to cherry pick weakest MW champ ever in Bisping.

Did I ever say it proved anything? I don't have proof he was juicing and don't have proof he didn't. His downfall just conspicuously coincided with transfer to a regulated jurisdiction.

Out of those 33 fights at 34 years how many are you sure were really high-level? Because some of them were against middleweights, others against people with 0-1 record and circus freaks.

Oh, he had mileage? I wonder if Cormier had some by his 30s after doing wrestling for his entire life. People recovered from terrible accidents and injuries and looked better than Fedor, who, on the other side was among the least hittable fighters in the sport and had never been knocked down before the alleged end of his "prime." Hardly ever been rocked except that Fujita chicken dance. Oh, did his hands hurt? Look at the hands (and feet) of almost anybody who's been doing BJJ for 20 years.

He started losing not because his body went through hell unknown to the likes of Werdum or Cormier. He started losing because he bought into his own invulnerability myth and stopped training seriously to hang out with priests and shoot shitty movies.

 

[OldBoy91]

The “Prime” discussion is always a bit nebulous to me.

It seems whenever a fighter loses they’re automatically out of their prime.

This is used by detractors of the fighter to say they were never really good and used by fans of the fighter as a reasoning for why they lost.

I mean, everybody has a prime. Fedor included. There's a clear difference between PRIDE Fedor and the Fedor that fought Mitrione and Bader for example.

The Fedor that fought Werdum and Bigfoot? Not so much. But his fans would have us all believe he was an old crippled shell of a man the very moment he lost. So they can keep with their make believe "prime Fedor beats every fighter in history easily".

If Fedor was "out of prime" at 32 when he lost to Werdum, then why the fuck isn't every other 32 year old heavyweight out of theirs? Most heavyweights are APPROACHING their prime at that age.

Werdum himself didn't reach his prime until he was 35 or 36.

So then they pivot to "It wasn't JUST the age. He had over 30 fights.


But don't take into account one of the guys he lost to in that period. Hendo.

Was 6 years older than Fedor.

Had 36 fights to Fedor's 33.

Started his MMA career 3 years before Fedor.

Had taken far more damage in his career.

Yet Fedor gets the excuse of being old and washed, but the guy who was much older, had been fighting longer, and was multiple weightclasses lighter (where people typically go out of prime earlier) doesn't?

Make it make sense.

 

[OLD RED]

I mean, everybody has a prime. Fedor included. There's a clear difference between PRIDE Fedor and the Fedor that fought Mitrione and Bader for example.

The Fedor that fought Werdum and Bigfoot? Not so much. But his fans would have us all believe he was an old crippled shell of a man the very moment he lost. So they can keep with their make believe "prime Fedor beats every fighter in history easily".

If Fedor was "out of prime" at 32 when he lost to Werdum, then why the fuck isn't every other 32 year old heavyweight out of theirs? Most heavyweights are APPROACHING their prime at that age.

Werdum himself didn't reach his prime until he was 35 or 36.

So then they pivot to "It wasn't JUST the age. He had over 30 fights.


But don't take into account one of the guys he lost to in that period. Hendo.

Was 6 years older than Fedor.

Had 36 fights to Fedor's 33.

Started his MMA career 3 years before Fedor.

Had taken far more damage in his career.

Yet Fedor gets the excuse of being old and washed, but the guy who was much older, had been fighting longer, and was multiple weightclasses lighter (where people typically go out of prime earlier) doesn't?

Make it make sense.

Fedor became champion in 2003. Lost in Strikeforce 7-8 years later. Show me one fighter who was still in their prime 7 years after becoming champion. Fedor wasn't a shell of a man in Strikeforce. He was still good but he wasn't at his best. His coaches said he was already slowing down when he was fighting in Affliction. He was winging it in Strikeforce. That's not a fighter who's in his prime.

 

[MMonk]

Did I ever say it proved anything? I don't have proof he was juicing and don't have proof he didn't. His downfall just conspicuously coincided with transfer to a regulated jurisdiction.

Out of those 33 fights at 34 years how many are you sure were really high-level? Because some of them were against middleweights, others against people with 0-1 record and circus freaks.

Oh, he had mileage? I wonder if Cormier had some by his 30s after doing wrestling for his entire life. People recovered from terrible accidents and injuries and looked better than Fedor, who, on the other side was among the least hittable fighters in the sport and had never been knocked down before the alleged end of his "prime." Hardly ever been rocked except that Fujita chicken dance. Oh, did his hands hurt? Look at the hands (and feet) of almost anybody who's been doing BJJ for 20 years.

He started losing not because his body went through hell unknown to the likes of Werdum or Cormier. He started losing because he bought into his own invulnerability myth and stopped training seriously to hang out with priests and shoot shitty movies.

Show me a fighter who fought only high level and no newcomers and journeymen?

Show me someone who has beaten as much PRIDE and UFC acting and former champs + title defences.

DC is not the only one who had a career before MMA, Fedor did Sambo and Judo and Combat Sambo.

Do you understand, that every training camp and every fight puts mileage on athelete body, not only being rocked?


He started losing not because his body went through hell unknown to the likes of Werdum or Cormier?

How can you tell that?
What's the hard eveidence?


He started losing because he bought into his own invulnerability myth and stopped training seriously to hang out with priests and shoot shitty movies.

I can agree to that to some extent as a Fedor fan.
He should have trained at least part time in big gym.
Should have used TRT with Hendo and Bigfoot to level the playing field.
Should have juiced as Werdum, who got caught later.

 

[MMonk]

Henderson was nearly 50 years old lol. You really going to pretend like Henderson wasn't beating all time greats before he fought Fedor?

Hendo is an all time great, no denying that.

Also, do you deny, that Hendo and Vitor on and off TRT are the same fighters?

 

[MMonk]

When he was 46 years of age

Still TRT is an unfair advantage , that' why it was banned

 

[markg171]

GSP only returned to cherry pick weakest MW champ ever in Bisping.

Man of all things to shit on, singling out cherrypicking in a discussion about Fedor is probably the most hilarious thing you could've ever chosen.

 

[BFoe]

Half of those people ended their careers much earlier than Fedor. He retired in 2012? Who cares? We all know he cropped up a couple years later only to continue embarrass himself.

As to whether one or another fight made sense or not at any point in time, I gotta say I don't consider "not being in UFC" a valid excuse. It's his problem he chose to train in a daycare center and seek easy paydays, and not other top-level HW fighters' who kept fighting each other as he fought Lindland, Choi and Henderson.

Had he joined UFC after PRIDE like Shogun, Rampage, Spider Silva, Nogueira and many others, suddenly fights with Couture, Lesnar, JDS, Cain, Carwin and others would've made much more sense than fighting middleweights or non-fighters.

You don't like matchups with Cormier, Carwin, JDS? OK how about Ricco Rod, Gonzaga, Kongo, Nelson, Pat Barry? Would any of them be a more interesting matchup than Zulu, Choi, Lindland, Nagata or Dan Henderson?

Fedor fought fucking Mark Coleman twice, who was 12 years his elder and was 42 at the time of their 2nd match (as if the first one was inconclusive). So fights against Cain (6 years younger) and JDS (7 years younger) would've made perfect sense. Carwin, in fact, is 2 years older than Fedor.

And, of course, he literally had decades to face Barnett even if one booking fell through due to Barnett's fuckup.

Nothing really stood in the way of Overeem fight either. He was on the horsemeat? Every Fedor opponent in Japan could've possibly been a centaur and it never deterred him. Then, after the Bigfoot fight, I guess it became painfully obvious for everyone why this fight never happened.

This is a pretty dishonest reply,
At no time did I say “Fedor wasn’t in the UFC bro” as a reason for fight not happening. I looked at timelines, and rankings.

I’m just pointing out that most of these fights don’t make sense for the timeline. At no time did I say Fedor shouldn’t fight Reem because “horsemeat,” that’s just you being dishonest again. What I pointed out is that Reem didn’t even defend the Strikeforce belt from 2007-2010. I wish Overeem hadn’t gone back overseas from 2007-2010, but he did. *Mayyybe* a fight with Fedor could’ve been arranged in June-July 2008 when Overeem was fighting in DREAM— but Reem was unranked at the time (after beating Hunt in July he went to #13) , and Fedor fought in July 2008 against #5 Sylvia. Why the hell would he fight Overeem? So yes, there were many things standing in the way of that fight happening.

It’s easy to say goofy stuff like

Fedor fought fucking Mark Coleman twice, who was 12 years his elder and was 42 at the time of their 2nd match (as if the first one was inconclusive). So fights against Cain (6 years younger) and JDS (7 years younger) would've made perfect sense. Carwin, in fact, is 2 years older than Fedor.

When would these fights happen? It’s easy to play fantasy matchmaker without regard for reality. I get the criticism of the Coleman 2 fight, but here are the rankings. Obviously Cain, JDS, and even Pat Barry hadn’t even made their MMA debut yet; Kongo had just gotten to the UFC a few months earlier and no one cared much about him yet; and Ricco was unranked by then and fighting in orgs like “MMAXtreme” and “Beatdown In Bakersfield” FFS. Of the ranked names listed, Fedor already fought Cro Cop and Nog, Barnett was actually offered the Fedor fight at this exact time and refused it, Fedor would later fight Sylvia, Arlovski, Werdum, and Hunt, obviously would never fight his brother Aleks—- so that leaves us Sergei then? Out of all that, I can agree that Sergei might’ve been nice. But he was struggling with injuries and had just lost his previous 2 fights, the latter being to Aleks E. Coleman had been out of the ring for a bit but had actually won his last two (fluke injury to Shogun notwithstanding).

You can’t just say “Fedor should fight these guys because they’re younger” lol. The fights have to make sense in the actual, real framework of the sport at the time. That’s my point.

 

[BFoe]

When he was 46 years of age

Henderson was nearly 50 years old lol. You really going to pretend like Henderson wasn't beating all time greats before he fought Fedor?

I’m a big Hendo fan, but the truth is that every single accolade he accomplished in MMA was done on TRT, which he started using back in PRIDE. His 2 PRIDE titles, his Strikeforce LHW title, his wins over Fedor and Shogun…all on TRT. It’s kind of pointless to talk about that version of Hendo and how much older than Fedor he was, when he was specifically taking exogenous testosterone so as to perform at the level of a younger person. It’s not just the Bisping fight at the end of his career where he looked like shit; Hendo looked every bit his age as soon as he stopped TRT. What was his record, like 2-6 or something off of TRT?

 

[mixmastermo]

. The explosiveness, speed, the power, the balance and coordination. It's simply on a different level. 2004 Fedor would end any HW that has ever existed Ngannou-Joshua just made this crystal clear in my mind. Ngannou is nowhere as quick and agile as Fedor. The most well rounded HW fighter the sport has ever seen, even 20 years later.

View attachment 1033617

So why'd he duck Alistair Overeem and Brock Lesnar?

 

[RonDante]

I’m a big Hendo fan, but the truth is that every single accolade he accomplished in MMA was done on TRT, which he started using back in PRIDE. His 2 PRIDE titles, his Strikeforce LHW title, his wins over Fedor and Shogun…all on TRT. It’s kind of pointless to talk about that version of Hendo and how much older than Fedor he was, when he was specifically taking exogenous testosterone so as to perform at the level of a younger person. It’s not just the Bisping fight at the end of his career where he looked like shit; Hendo looked every bit his age as soon as he stopped TRT. What was his record, like 2-6 or something off of TRT?

I literally don’t care if he was on PEDs in the era that everyone was on PEDs

He was 46 when he lost to bisping, 99% of mma fighters are retired by that age

 

[Greyscale]

Show me a fighter who fought only high level and no newcomers and journeymen?

Show me someone who has beaten as much PRIDE and UFC acting and former champs + title defences.

DC is not the only one who had a career before MMA, Fedor did Sambo and Judo and Combat Sambo.

Do you understand, that every training camp and every fight puts mileage on athelete body, not only being rocked?

First of all, let's get it out of the way: Fedor beat exactly ZERO UFC champions. Victories over people 2-11 years AFTER they lost the belt mean a little more than beating up a Royce Gracie in back alley in 2024.

Did I say that a fighter should always fight elite competition? Nevermind. Show me a UFC chamption who won the belt and then went to some other promotion to fight a circus acrobat with 0-1 record in MMA.

This is a pretty dishonest reply,
At no time did I say “Fedor wasn’t in the UFC bro” as a reason for fight not happening. I looked at timelines, and rankings.

I’m just pointing out that most of these fights don’t make sense for the timeline. At no time did I say Fedor shouldn’t fight Reem because “horsemeat,” that’s just you being dishonest again. What I pointed out is that Reem didn’t even defend the Strikeforce belt from 2007-2010. I wish Overeem hadn’t gone back overseas from 2007-2010, but he did. *Mayyybe* a fight with Fedor could’ve been arranged in June-July 2008 when Overeem was fighting in DREAM— but Reem was unranked at the time (after beating Hunt in July he went to #13) , and Fedor fought in July 2008 against #5 Sylvia. Why the hell would he fight Overeem? So yes, there were many things standing in the way of that fight happening.

It’s easy to say goofy stuff like

When would these fights happen? It’s easy to play fantasy matchmaker without regard for reality. I get the criticism of the Coleman 2 fight, but here are the rankings. Obviously Cain, JDS, and even Pat Barry hadn’t even made their MMA debut yet; Kongo had just gotten to the UFC a few months earlier and no one cared much about him yet; and Ricco was unranked by then and fighting in orgs like “MMAXtreme” and “Beatdown In Bakersfield” FFS. Of the ranked names listed, Fedor already fought Cro Cop and Nog, Barnett was actually offered the Fedor fight at this exact time and refused it, Fedor would later fight Sylvia, Arlovski, Werdum, and Hunt, obviously would never fight his brother Aleks—- so that leaves us Sergei then? Out of all that, I can agree that Sergei might’ve been nice. But he was struggling with injuries and had just lost his previous 2 fights, the latter being to Aleks E. Coleman had been out of the ring for a bit but had actually won his last two (fluke injury to Shogun notwithstanding).

You can’t just say “Fedor should fight these guys because they’re younger” lol. The fights have to make sense in the actual, real framework of the sport at the time. That’s my point.

Ah, I see now. So Fedor chose his opponents based on rankings. I missed that. At which point then fights with

Nagata
Valavicius
Zulu
Lindland
Choi
Henderson

made sense rankings-wise? And he didn't fight them on a regional circuit at the start of his career. He fought them as a #1 HW in the world and P4P #1, being at the absolute peak of his career and form. In 2007 he only fought Lindland and Choi, which actually warrants a drop from any rankings that are worth their salt. Several months after the Fedor's Choi fight Werdum faced JDS in UFC. So it made perfect sense for Werdum to face this guy. JDS's next fight could've easily been Fedor. It's the latter's bad career decisions that shut him out of great matchups (at least on paper, he would've got smoked anyway) and not some insurmountable circumstances that made him fight Chois and Lindlands instead of real opponents.

 

[BFoe]

I literally don’t care if he was on PEDs in the era that everyone was on PEDs

He was 46 when he lost to bisping, 99% of mma fighters are retired by that age

I don’t care about the Bisping fight, that’s not the point of my post. The point was how Hendo performed on TRT—such as when he fought Fedor—as popposed to how he performed off of it. “Everyone” was not on PEDs, that’s just a lazy, made up excuse.

 

[Daniel_LaRusso]

PEDs disqualifies Jones from goat discussion.
I don’t think he ever fought clean. Not even the flat performance against OSP. And the Gain fight was a fix.

 

[WolfPackHunter]

I don't believe the testing for Pride US events, Affliction or Strikeforce would have been lesser than in the UFC and honestly I think if you were taking PEDs and looking to hide it then it would probably have been more dangerous to be in a rival org, compare say what happened with Barnett at Affliction's cancilled third event to what happened with Lesnar vs Hunt.

Randy espeically I think would have had very little chance vs Fedor, look at Randy's fight with Nog and I think you see the problem he faced against someone who had superior power, chin and submissions to him and with Fedor in say 2007/08 your dealing with someone who also has vastly superior striking defence/offence to a declining Nog and much better wrestling as well.

I feel Randy's only real hope in that fight would have been to have it in a cage and hope Fedor hadnt prepped for a load of cage clinching and refs allowing him to do it nonstop. I think the most likely result in Randy gets finished very quickly indeed though, maybe as quickly as Sylvia was.

I disagree but liked your comment because 1) you respectfully put your point across without rubbishing my own. 2) You truly believe what you are saying and while I don't it'd f he beauty of the sport 2 men can have such differing opinions yet one of us could be right. Respect brother

 

[Fox by the Sea]

you've got guys like GSP and Jones saying Fedor is great, but some fat greasy losers posting from the macdonalds wifi disagree so i guess it's settled.

 

[mixmastermo]

First of all, let's get it out of the way: Fedor beat exactly ZERO UFC champions. Victories over people 2-11 years AFTER they lost the belt mean a little more than beating up a Royce Gracie in back alley in 2024.

Did I say that a fighter should always fight elite competition? Nevermind. Show me a UFC chamption who won the belt and then went to some other promotion to fight a circus acrobat with 0-1 record in MMA.


Ah, I see now. So Fedor chose his opponents based on rankings. I missed that. At which point then fights with

Nagata
Valavicius
Zulu
Lindland
Choi
Henderson

made sense rankings-wise? And he didn't fight them on a regional circuit at the start of his career. He fought them as a #1 HW in the world and P4P #1, being at the absolute peak of his career and form. In 2007 he only fought Lindland and Choi, which actually warrants a drop from any rankings that are worth their salt. Several months after the Fedor's Choi fight Werdum faced JDS in UFC. So it made perfect sense for Werdum to face this guy. JDS's next fight could've easily been Fedor. It's the latter's bad career decisions that shut him out of great matchups (at least on paper, he would've got smoked anyway) and not some insurmountable circumstances that made him fight Chois and Lindlands instead of real opponents.

Great post. Fedor was a phenomenal fighter- one of the best ever. But the pedestal he gets put on around here is ridiculous.

 

[Greyscale]

Great post. Fedor was a phenomenal fighter- one of the best ever. But the pedestal he gets put on around here is ridiculous.

He brought many people to the sport, me included. We all probably remember those nights watching his fights in awe. Many things have happened since but many fans still can't accept that his "SYSTEMA" (yes, some people here thought this was true) striking is nothing but 1 overhand haymaker. His ground game is nonexistent and while he successfully pounded Nog from his guard thanks to sheer strength and explosiveness (without any semblance of technical passing or looking for a sub), the very next black belt Fedor faced (took him 5 years, lol) exposed his actual level of grappling right away. His personality... is another story but the MMA community will have to face it sooner or later.

But ultimately what matters the most is that about 35 of his 47 fights were against cans, has-beens, non-heavyweights or non-fighters. In those 47 fights he had THREE defenses of a title that mattered at least something. That's not remotely a GOAT material.

 

[moreorless87]

Did I ever say it proved anything? I don't have proof he was juicing and don't have proof he didn't. His downfall just conspicuously coincided with transfer to a regulated jurisdiction.

Out of those 33 fights at 34 years how many are you sure were really high-level? Because some of them were against middleweights, others against people with 0-1 record and circus freaks.

Oh, he had mileage? I wonder if Cormier had some by his 30s after doing wrestling for his entire life. People recovered from terrible accidents and injuries and looked better than Fedor, who, on the other side was among the least hittable fighters in the sport and had never been knocked down before the alleged end of his "prime." Hardly ever been rocked except that Fujita chicken dance. Oh, did his hands hurt? Look at the hands (and feet) of almost anybody who's been doing BJJ for 20 years.

He started losing not because his body went through hell unknown to the likes of Werdum or Cormier. He started losing because he bought into his own invulnerability myth and stopped training seriously to hang out with priests and shoot shitty movies.

It didnt really though did it? he fought in the US first in late 2006 and he didnt lose until 2010.

I would argue the reverse of your argument is probably closer to the truth, one one the biggest markers for PED use tends to not be early decline but rather fighters to carry on looking in great shape into their late 30's and 40's, Randy, Hendo, Vitor, Anderson, etc all on PEDs whether legal or not.

 

[AbominableJoman]

Ngannou ducked the rematch with Lewis

He ducked him during their fight too