Stop looking at mass killers as unique murderers... How to really stop this..

The study identified only 185 mass shootings in an over 40 year span. Had it included domestic, gang and drug related shootings it would have stretched into the tens of thousands.

The data did not conform to your fantasy expectations. And you're pissed about it. We get it.


Did you even read the short study you posted?

It is in-fact, including workplace, school, and every other shooting in which at least two people were injured.

Every single shooting in the U.S., in that time period, in which two or more people were injured.

I can't help you if you can't bother to read and understand your own links.
 
Did you even read the short study you posted?

It is in-fact, including workplace, school, and every other shooting in which at least two people were injured.

Every single shooting in the U.S., in that time period, in which two or more people were injured.

I can't help you if you can't bother to read and understand your own links.

Yes, Cryron, only 185 total shootings in the US that resulted in the injury of at least 2 people in over 40 years. There was no additional criteria placed on the data. Pretty amazing.

Maybe the real take away from the study is that gun violence in America isn't really that big an issue after all!
 
Yes, Cryron, only 185 total shootings in the US that resulted in the injury of at least 2 people in over 40 years.

For sure the NYC police analyzed the whole US or just NY? Seems odd a local PD would do a national study.


About the study I cited:

"Adam Lankford, an associate professor of criminal justice at the University of Alabama who studies mass shootings performed a statistical analysis of a 2010 New York City Police Department report that attempted to encapsulate all "active shootings," defined as one person killing others in a well-populated confined area, between 1966 and 2010. The study refined the data to only include U.S. shootings in which two or more people were killed or injured. That resulted in a total of 185 mass shooters--including both workplace and school shooters."
 
For sure the NYC police analyzed the whole US or just NY? Seems odd a local PD would do a national study.

The study was done by a professor in Alabama, not the NYPD. The PD's database included all 50 states.
 
The study was done by a professor in Alabama, not the NYPD. The PD's database included all 50 states.


What's the difference between a study and a report attempting to encapsulate? The professor just refined what was done by NYPD. Not that it matters.

Re-reading it again, it sounds like NYPD looked at the entire world and the prof pulled out the US instances. Either way, looks like it wasn't just NY data included.
 
Stupid question<stupid answer

Yet, it remains. Is America closer, in social evolution and governmental structure, closer to Australia in 1997, or Germany in the times of the Nazi party?

The answer seems within your grasp, seemingly.

And remember, you're the one who brought the Nazis into the discussion about 21st century America.
 
Yet, it remains. Is America closer, in social evolution and governmental structure, closer to Australia in 1997, or Germany in the times of the Nazi party?

The answer seems within your grasp, seemingly.

And remember, you're the one who brought the Nazis into the discussion about 21st century America.

Both are similar to where we are. Steadily being propagandized into giving up our guns. There is a lesson in that Hitler quote.
 
Both are similar to where we are. Steadily being propagandized into giving up our guns. There is a lesson in that Hitler quote.

So, you think America is close to Germany in 1938? Are you high?

Where is the rampant Jewish hysteria?

Where is the fascist dictator?

Where is the murdering of all political opposition?

Where is the bloodlust and yearning to take over Europe?

Is America facing similar hardship like the conditions of The Treaty of Versailles?

Our American leaders obsessed with racial superiority and Nordic blood myths?

What a stupid fucking thing for you to even contemplate, much less ooze out of your mouth.
 
Metal detectors will do nothing. He will shoot the lame 50 year old woman manning the metal detector and go right through and kill whoever he wants.



Nah, mass shooters are cowards -they target vulnerable areas on purpose. If there's even a chance they can get stopped before they get started it will deter many of them. Inner city schools take similar measures and it works pretty well from what I know.


The problem may become seeing them shooting up other areas like malls and movie theaters -but you can help deter alot of that by allowing conceal carry in such areas.


But of course, there are arguments against allowing that stuff by paranoid people that have been brainwashed by the media that 'guns'er bad mmkay'
 
So, you think America is close to Germany in 1938? Are you high?

Where is the rampant Jewish hysteria?

Where is the fascist dictator?

Where is the murdering of all political opposition?

Where is the bloodlust and yearning to take over Europe?

Is America facing similar hardship like the conditions of The Treaty of Versailles?

Our American leaders obsessed with racial superiority and Nordic blood myths?

What a stupid fucking thing for you to even contemplate, much less ooze out of your mouth.




I don't care which country you guys want to compare us to.


Not willing to give up important constitutional rights -or severely water them down- because bad people exist and make terrible life choices. And because 'look what this country that isn't at all the same as yours did'.
 
I don't care which country you guys want to compare us to.


Not willing to give up important constitutional rights -or severely water them down- because bad people exist and make terrible life choices. And because 'look what this country that isn't at all the same as yours did'.

We saw a massive decrease in gun deaths in Australia and England. The guy, for some reason, brought up Germany in the Nazi era.
 
We saw a massive decrease in gun deaths in Australia and England. The guy, for some reason, brought up Germany in the Nazi era.


Doesnt matter. Comparing America to Germany, UK, Australia -anyone else- doesn't work. Different countries, different geography, different political climate, different cultures, different population, more diversity, different problems.. you name it.


I can't speak for citizens in other countries, but in the US we're pretty set in stone with many of the main points in our constitution. And the right to keep and bear arms is one of the biggest next to the freedom of speech. There's a large portion of people here that see the bigger picture and don't let the media guide us into knee jerk emotional reactions to terrible situations. And it's important that it stays that way.


Blaming Guns for violence is dumb. It's as pointless as blaming cars used in gangbanger driveby's for the drive by -which doesn't happen, but it's an example of something being improperly identified as the cause/root of something terrible.


The real issue with the guns is that it's become a political talking point used to pull people in whichever direction the puppeteer wants to sway its masses. Ban the scary black AR-15 because 'no one should own a weapon designed for war' -never mind the fact that one of the reasons for the 2nd is in the event the people should have to rise up and, you know, make fucking war. Also never mind the fact that these terrible acts can be carried out with any number of other guns that are in existence. It's a distraction at best and at worst a falsely accused suspect in a murder investigation because the authorities can't solve the real crime and just need a fall guy.


There are no real solutions here -to find one, you'd have to find a cure for human nature itself. And, good luck with that.
 
Doesnt matter. Comparing America to Germany, UK, Australia -anyone else- doesn't work. Different countries, different geography, different political climate, different cultures, different population, more diversity, different problems.. you name it.


I can't speak for citizens in other countries, but in the US we're pretty set in stone with many of the main points in our constitution. And the right to keep and bear arms is one of the biggest next to the freedom of speech. There's a large portion of people here that see the bigger picture and don't let the media guide us into knee jerk emotional reactions to terrible situations. And it's important that it stays that way.


Blaming Guns for violence is dumb. It's as pointless as blaming cars used in gangbanger driveby's for the drive by -which doesn't happen, but it's an example of something being improperly identified as the cause/root of something terrible.


The real issue with the guns is that it's become a political talking point used to pull people in whichever direction the puppeteer wants to sway its masses. Ban the scary black AR-15 because 'no one should own a weapon designed for war' -never mind the fact that one of the reasons for the 2nd is in the event the people should have to rise up and, you know, make fucking war. Also never mind the fact that these terrible acts can be carried out with any number of other guns that are in existence. It's a distraction at best and at worst a falsely accused suspect in a murder investigation because the authorities can't solve the real crime and just need a fall guy.


There are no real solutions here -to find one, you'd have to find a cure for human nature itself. And, good luck with that.

america has great similarities with Australia, Canada and European nations. To simply discard this is facile.

The second amendment was created to protect against insurrection and slavery. That is the entire point of the wording. It says security of a free state, not nation. The citizenry was expected to keep their weapons, and for the most part, not the ammo. Ammo was kept in storehouses. The whiskey rebellion was a good example of this sentiment, in practice.

If you want to see why the second amendment was worded that way, and what it was for, read the letters between Patrick Henry and James Madison.

It was not created to fight tyranny, it was for the protection of state power. The tyranny argument is laughable today, considering the power and sophistication of our military.

Henry makes his sentiment clear:

"Let me here call your attention to that part [Article 1, Section 8 of the proposed Constitution] which gives the Congress power to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States....

"By this, sir, you see that their control over our last and best defence is unlimited. If they neglect or refuse to discipline or arm our militia, they will be useless: the states can do neither ... this power being exclusively given to Congress. The power of appointing officers over men not disciplined or armed is ridiculous; so that this pretended little remains of power left to the states may, at the pleasure of Congress, be rendered nugatory."

George Mason:

"The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practised in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless, by disarming them. Under various pretences, Congress may neglect to provide for arming and disciplining the militia; and the state governments cannot do it, for Congress has an exclusive right to arm them [under this proposed Constitution].... "

Henry, further:

"If the country be invaded, a state may go to war, but cannot suppress [slave] insurrections [under this new Constitution]. If there should happen an insurrection of slaves, the country cannot be said to be invaded. They cannot, therefore, suppress it without the interposition of Congress.... Congress, and Congress only [under this new Constitution], can call forth the militia."

"In this state, there are two hundred and thirty-six thousand blacks, and there are many in several other states. But there are few or none in the Northern States.... May Congress not say, that every black man must fight? Did we not see a little of this last war? We were not so hard pushed as to make emancipation general; but acts of Assembly passed that every slave who would go to the army should be free."
 
So, you think America is close to Germany in 1938? Are you high?

Where is the rampant Jewish hysteria?

Where is the fascist dictator?

Where is the murdering of all political opposition?

Where is the bloodlust and yearning to take over Europe?

Is America facing similar hardship like the conditions of The Treaty of Versailles?

Our American leaders obsessed with racial superiority and Nordic blood myths?

What a stupid fucking thing for you to even contemplate, much less ooze out of your mouth.

This isn't about being "closer". Its about whether you think people in power have the capability to abuse it. Unless you think we've magically evolved as people to become incorruptible, then why else would you think its prudent to have all the weapons centralized?
 
This isn't about being "closer". Its about whether you think people in power have the capability to abuse it. Unless you think we've magically evolved as people to become incorruptible, then why else would you think its prudent to have all the weapons centralized?

People can abuse anything. That is not an argument for or against guns. Humans are corruptible. So if you have a tool that makes it exceptionally easy to mow people down, and that is it's purpose, maybe you limit this weapon to military and police swat teams.

Are gun homicides worse than other homicides?

Homicide is homicide. However, using guns to commit homicides en masse is quite easy. Bombs are easy too, and the government tries to keep a lockdown on materials people typically make bombs with.
 
Homicide is homicide. However, using guns to commit homicides en masse is quite easy. Bombs are easy too, and the government tries to keep a lockdown on materials people typically make bombs with.


http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/19/knives-gun-control-fbi-statistics/

Knives kill far more people in the United States than rifles do every year.

In the wake of the horrific school shooting in Florida last week, the debate over guns in America has surged again to the forefront oft the political conversation. Seventeen students were killed when a deranged gunman rampaged through the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida. Many are calling now for stricter gun laws in the wake of the shooting, specifically targeting the AR-15 rifle and promoting the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban.

However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year.

According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12

Screen-Shot-2018-02-19-at-12.04.28-PM.png


http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11...each-year-than-rifles-time-for-knife-control/

“But what about handgun murders?” you might ask. “They’re responsible for the majority of gun murders, so why don’t we just ban them and stop worrying about rifles?” Easy: because gun bans and strict gun control don’t really prevent gun violence. Take, for example, Illinois and California. In 2013, there were 5,782 murders by handgun in the U.S. According to FBI data, 20 percent of those — 1,157 of the 5,782 handgun murders — happened in Illinois and California, which have two of the toughest state gun control regimes in the entire country. And even though California and Illinois contain about 16 percent of the nation’s population, those two states are responsible for over 20 percent of the nation’s handgun murders.
 
People can abuse anything. That is not an argument for or against guns. Humans are corruptible. So if you have a tool that makes it exceptionally easy to mow people down, and that is it's purpose, maybe you limit this weapon to military and police swat teams.

If people are corruptable then why are you advocating placing all the weapons in a single group of people's hands?

Homicide is homicide. However, using guns to commit homicides en masse is quite easy. Bombs are easy too, and the government tries to keep a lockdown on materials people typically make bombs with.

I agree with the tautology, homicide is homicide! Since it's easier to kill with a firearms, are you suggesting that it follows murder will be more prevalent with more firearms?

If so, is there a causal demonstration of that? What about a corollary one?
 
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/19/knives-gun-control-fbi-statistics/

Knives kill far more people in the United States than rifles do every year.

In the wake of the horrific school shooting in Florida last week, the debate over guns in America has surged again to the forefront oft the political conversation. Seventeen students were killed when a deranged gunman rampaged through the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida. Many are calling now for stricter gun laws in the wake of the shooting, specifically targeting the AR-15 rifle and promoting the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban.

However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year.

According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12

Screen-Shot-2018-02-19-at-12.04.28-PM.png


http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11...each-year-than-rifles-time-for-knife-control/

“But what about handgun murders?” you might ask. “They’re responsible for the majority of gun murders, so why don’t we just ban them and stop worrying about rifles?” Easy: because gun bans and strict gun control don’t really prevent gun violence. Take, for example, Illinois and California. In 2013, there were 5,782 murders by handgun in the U.S. According to FBI data, 20 percent of those — 1,157 of the 5,782 handgun murders — happened in Illinois and California, which have two of the toughest state gun control regimes in the entire country. And even though California and Illinois contain about 16 percent of the nation’s population, those two states are responsible for over 20 percent of the nation’s handgun murders.

This will mean nothing to the person you intended it to be read by. I on the other hand appreciate it.
 
If people are corruptable then why are you advocating placing all the weapons in a single group of people's hands?



I agree with the tautology, homicide is homicide! Since it's easier to kill with a firearms, are you suggesting that it follows murder will be more prevalent with more firearms?

If so, is there a causal demonstration of that? What about a corollary one?

On your first point: People are corrupt potentially. Yet, we trust people when an institution that they represent has oversight and checks that prevent or mitigate abuse. Police and military, at least in principle, have oversight that prevents them from holding the average citizen's life in their hands for no reason, or under no established protocol set legally.

On the second point: Nutbags with delusions of grandeur don't usually lace themselves up with guns and start stabbing their classmates at some community college. Guns provide an easy way to kill people while exerting little to none of their energy in doing so. The Vegas killer could not throw knives from his balcony. The guns he had gave him the ability to kill without recourse of A. Likely fire coming back, and B. The victims inability to find him quickly.

I don't see this distinction as a mere detail.
 
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