The END of the G.O.A.T. Debate

[george14]

And who has he beat? He's been finished by anyone decent. Should tell you how good the HW division is!

The point is, the UFC fanboy argument is "Fedor never fought in the UFC so he fought cans". Those same people fail to acknowledge that Fedor is 7-1 against UFC Heavyweight Champions. Not to mention, it is well known PRIDE had the superior Heavyweight division during Fedor's prime. We all know Heavyweight is not a deep division because the title always changes hands, or is it filled with guys who are actually good? Or (the most rational explanation) is it because these guys are all huge and can get slept at any moment?

That is what makes Fedor so great, he was undefeated for basically 10 years fighting huge guys. Many of whom were or became champions. The fact that Mark Hunt is still a contender tells you Fedor fought good fighters.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

The point is, the UFC fanboy argument is "Fedor never fought in the UFC so he fought cans". Those same people fail to acknowledge that Fedor is 7-1 against UFC Heavyweight Champions. Not to mention, it is well known PRIDE had the superior Heavyweight division during Fedor's prime. We all know Heavyweight is not a deep division because the title always changes hands, or is it filled with guys who are actually good? Or (the most rational explanation) is it because these guys are all huge and can get slept at any moment?

That is what makes Fedor so great, he was undefeated for basically 10 years fighting huge guys. Many of whom were or became champions. The fact that Mark Hunt is still a contender tells you Fedor fought good fighters.

No the most rational explanation is they are terrible PERIOD. Boxing doesn't have belts changing hands like hot potatoes, so your little excuse about KOs are irrelevant considering a sport where those guys hit a lot fucking harder and longer. Guys like Frank Mir, Mark Hunt, and Cro Cop being considered some of the best in their division history is absolutely laughable. Look at how a blown up LHW like DC ran rough shot through the division, or a MW KOed it's supposed GOAT and these guys have dozens of pounds of weight advantage. Sad! And if you had eyes, you'd realize just how bad these guys techniques are.

HW is the absolute worst male division historically, perhaps only surpassed today by the mess that is LHW and that's a fact. An old fat boxer went and KOed a UFC HW champion too. That doesn't make him a great MMA figher. Fedor went and beat up cans, because most of them literally were undeniably cans...and then the rest of the "talented" guys consisted of people like Kevin Randleman. Compare that to the quality of talent in any division, and it's laughably not close.

The HW division has finally gotten a couple of legitimate guys for the first time in history, including Werdum who is better than Fedor who is even better now! Deal with it.

 

[Bubblun]

The problem is that you and so many new MMA fans do not know who Fedor was in his prime. You guys only know the latter years StrikeForce Fedor.

Fedor did not carry any useless weight in his prime. He was a bear of a man and built like a power house.

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

There are so many people who think if you are not built like GSP it is all useless weight. The type of mass Fedor carried was all functional. It helped him over power and hold down and out muscle and submit opponents.

Despite me being one of GSP's biggest fans on this site I've always had Fedor ahead in the GOAT rankings until this last GSP win and I still am ok with others still having Fedor ahead.

But this bullshit about Fedor not being suited to HW needs to stop. He was pretty much ideally sized for HW and all the best guys were around his size/weight. the much bigger guys tended to be the easier wins.

That is a particularly good picture, probably stretched, that makes Fedor looks larger than he was.

Fedor always been chubby

And no, he wasn't the ideal size for an heavyweight, by today standards, he was between 223-236 pounds with body fat.

By the way, i remember that Pride had a rule that made the fighter smaller by more than 20 pounds, or something like that, having the judge favour if the fight went to a decision.
Basically being bigger was acknowledged being an advantage during a fight.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

Hey dummy, it’s not me counting those top 5 wins…it’s fact, well known fact. Here is another fact, fedor doesn’t have as many top 5 wins as GSP even though he went 10 years undefeated. Want to know why? Because he fought cans, lots of em. You can try and twist this anyway you want but your long novel posts are just Turds covered in fancy wrapping paper… its bullshit opinion and my short response is FACTS!!

You can call Nagata a can but that was his 5th fight that year.

You can call Valavicius a can but he had just beat Nog for the World Title only THREE WEEKS before. Could you imagine a UFC champ fighting three weeks later?

He fought just as many top fighters as anyone. Eben if GSP has 1 or 2 more top wins over Fedor that is only because it was easier to get ranked at WW than HW.

GSP didn't have a Nog and Cro Cop in his division tearing up all the other contenders. Maybe Barnett, Werdum, Sergei, Aleks, Nastula and others could have got a shot at Fedor had they beaten Nog or CC but they could not. They lost at critical times.

Fedor showed more ways to win. He wasn't just jab, superman punch and takedown for decision. He could literally finish you anywhere the fight went. Standing KOs, GNP, sub from top, sub from bottom, decision from outstriking, decision from outgrappling.

The problem is that you and so many new MMA fans do not know who Fedor was in his prime. You guys only know the latter years StrikeForce Fedor.

Fedor did not carry any useless weight in his prime. He was a bear of a man and built like a power house.

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

There are so many people who think if you are not built like GSP it is all useless weight. The type of mass Fedor carried was all functional. It helped him over power and hold down and out muscle and submit opponents.

Despite me being one of GSP's biggest fans on this site I've always had Fedor ahead in the GOAT rankings until this last GSP win and I still am ok with others still having Fedor ahead.

But this bullshit about Fedor not being suited to HW needs to stop. He was pretty much ideally sized for HW and all the best guys were around his size/weight. the much bigger guys tended to be the easier wins.

True but he is an extremely short HW. He is only 5"11 fighting guys 6"4 and up.

He definitely got smaller and weaker but also slower in his 30s. Its like the farther he got away from his judo years the worse his grappling got but his striking kept getting better.

A lot of people think Red Devil really concentrated on his striking and slowed down on the grappling training. Injuries probably had a hand in it too. Heactually broke his right hand vs Goodridge and vs Zuluzhino which is why he threw almost nothing but lefts against Sylvia.

 

[GSPrush1]

The Greatest of All Time for a sport takes into consideration the following.....

1. Peak

- All athletes have a "Peak". In traditional sports its their best season(s). For fighters it is a dominant streak of fights. A time they looked completely unstoppable.

Examples:

- Jordan's 1992-1993 season
- Tom Brady's 2007 season
- Muhamad Ali from 1964-1967
- Fedor 2003-2009

2. Accomplishments

- The hardware earned. MVPs, Rings, Belts, Trophies, etc....

Examples:

- Bill Russels 11 rings
- Henri Richard 11 Stanley Cups
- Jack Niklaus 18 Major wins

3. Longevity

- How long did the athlete stay at the top or close to it?

Examples: None Needed

4. Unbelievable Feats/Wow Moments/Shockers/Whatever the fuck else you wanna call the "it" factor some athletes have

- Those plays, combos, subs, dunks, catches, etc. that you didn't even think were possible.

Examples:

- Ali KO Foreman
- Anderson dismantling of Griffin
- Jordans rock the baby dunk
- Wilt's 100 points

5. Clean and didn't cheat

- If an athlete cheats or gets popped for steroids they are out of the G.O.A.T. discussion. It isn't debatable.


NOW FOR THE MMA PORTION.....


What fighters are top 5 (no order) in each section?

PEAK

Fedor - Fought best HWs of his generation and was undefeated for 10years. Beat fighters at their own strengths. Dominated a division above is natural weight. Had elite finishing ability anywhere the fight went.

Anderson - Most UFC title defenses in a deep weight class. Made peope look dumb lke no other fighter ever has.

GSP - Absolutely dominated his opponents from a tactical aspect.

Conor - Never has a fighter shined as bright so fast. Only person to have to active titles and KO'd the best FW (at the time) ever in 12 seconds. Moved up and KO'd a top 5 LW of all time without even breaking a sweat. Say whatever you want about his personality, but he is a freak.

Jon Jones - Most naturally gifted athlete in MMA. Not in terms of explosion and muscles, but in terms of his ability to learn and apply any technique. He picks up wrestling, judo, BJJ and all the forms of striking faster than anyone I've ever seen.

Accomplishments

Fedor, Anderson, GSP, DJ & Jones

Longevity

Fedor, Anderson, GSP, DJ & Aldo

Unbelievable Feats/Wow Moments/Shockers/Whatever the fuck else you wanna call the "it" factor some athletes have

Anderson's dismantling of Griffin

GSP coming back and beating he MW champ like he did

Conor holding two titles simultaneously after KOing Aldo and Eddie in the brutal fashion he did

Fedor going 10 years without losing a round

Jones tear through the LHW division at its pinnacle. The gauntlet he went through was the hardest any fighter has.

Clean and didn't cheat

Fedor, GSP, Aldo, Conor & DJ



ONLY FEDOR AND GSP ARE IN ALL 5!!!!!!!!!



NOW FOR THE UNDENIABLE, IRREFUTABLE and FINAL ANSWER TO GOAT DISCUSSION.......

GSP was a razor thin second place.

GSP came back to the UFC after four years, moved up a weight class and submitted the Middleweight Champion

Fedor came back to MMA after 3 1/2 years beat a nobody, won a controversial decision, and got KOed by Mitrione in Bellator.

GSP > Fedor

 

[TheWalrusNo9]

GSP came back to the UFC after four years, moved up a weight class and submitted the Middleweight Champion

Fedor came back to MMA after 3 1/2 years beat a nobody, won a controversial decision, and got KOed by Mitrione in Bellator.

GSP > Fedor

GSP looked great for sure, but no version of GSP was better than Fedor at his best.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

No the most rational explanation is they are terrible PERIOD. Boxing doesn't have belts changing hands like hot potatoes, so your little excuse about KOs are irrelevant considering a sport where those guys hit a lot fucking harder and longer. Guys like Frank Mir, Mark Hunt, and Cro Cop being considered some of the best in their division history is absolutely laughable. Look at how a blown up LHW like DC ran rough shot through the division, or a MW KOed it's supposed GOAT and these guys have dozens of pounds of weight advantage. Sad! And if you had eyes, you'd realize just how bad these guys techniques are.

HW is the absolute worst male division historically, perhaps only surpassed today by the mess that is LHW and that's a fact. An old fat boxer went and KOed a UFC HW champion too. That doesn't make him a great MMA figher. Fedor went and beat up cans, because most of them literally were undeniably cans...and then the rest of the "talented" guys consisted of people like Kevin Randleman. Compare that to the quality of talent in any division, and it's laughably not close.

The HW division has finally gotten a couple of legitimate guys for the first time in history, including Werdum who is better than Fedor who is even better now! Deal with it.

You can call DC a blown up LHW but he used to weigh 247 as a HW.

DC is also a world class wrestler. He is actually a master of one facet of MMA which is more than most current fighters can say. Being an expert at something is a huge advantage in MMA, especially in this horribly weak era. He also beat a few guys who had been fighting for like 15 years like Barnett and Mir.

Look how Hunt came to the UFC and KO'ed almost all the UFC HWs. He beat Kongo, Nelson, Rothwell, old Mir. Hunt has only lost to a roided Brock, Stipe (very good wrestler) Werdum (PRIDE vet) and Reem (PRIDE vet) in the last few years.

Now imagine a K1 kickboxer coming in that was twice as fast, with less chin but amazing footwork and much better takedown defense. Imagine a guy that can end you with one lightning kick to the body or head. That is Mirko. That was Mirko in the early 2000s. You are an absolute idiot if you don't think he is one of the best HWs ever. He only fell off after 100 fights. But from 2001 to 2005 he was the most dangerous man on earth.

Go watch Werdum's fights in PRIDE. He is a more refined striker nowadays but he debuted in PRIDE at 27 as a BJJ God and he was very fast, athletic and pressured people with strikes and was aggressively looking for takedowns. Only lost to Nog and Sergei by decision. Nog and Sergei were more well rounded. Go watch Sergei vs Aleks, Sergei vs Nog and Sergei vs Reem 2 and tell me you don't see skills.

Obviously HW and 205 are less technical than lighter divisions but the mid 2000s HW scene was more skilled than today's slop fest. Fedor was on top of that mountain

 

[Typrune Goatley]

GSP came back to the UFC after four years, moved up a weight class and submitted the Middleweight Champion

Fedor came back to MMA after 3 1/2 years beat a nobody, won a controversial decision, and got KOed by Mitrione in Bellator.

GSP > Fedor

GSP beat 38 year old Bisping. He handpicked the weakest champ that has historically always lost to wrestlers.

I was happy GSP won but stop acting like this was huge. GSP didn't even have to win a contenders fight to earn that fight.

Had GSP not retired after his "win" over Hendricks and had he been fighting dangerous opponents the last 4 years we likely would have seen him lose just like all the other greats who stay in the game too long like Fedor, Anderson, Chuck, Nog, Wand, etc.

 

[JBJISGOAT]

You can call Nagata a can but that was his 5th fight that year.

You can call Valavicius a can but he had just beat Nog for the World Title only THREE WEEKS before. Could you imagine a UFC champ fighting three weeks later?

He fought just as many top fighters as anyone. Eben if GSP has 1 or 2 more top wins over Fedor that is only because it was easier to get ranked at WW than HW.

GSP didn't have a Nog and Cro Cop in his division tearing up all the other contenders. Maybe Barnett, Werdum, Sergei, Aleks, Nastula and others could have got a shot at Fedor had they beaten Nog or CC but they could not. They lost at critical times.

Fedor showed more ways to win. He wasn't just jab, superman punch and takedown for decision. He could literally finish you anywhere the fight went. Standing KOs, GNP, sub from top, sub from bottom, decision from outstriking, decision from outgrappling.



True but he is an extremely short HW. He is only 5"11 fighting guys 6"4 and up.

He definitely got smaller and weaker but also slower in his 30s. Its like the farther he got away from his judo years the worse his grappling got but his striking kept getting better.

A lot of people think Red Devil really concentrated on his striking and slowed down on the grappling training. Injuries probably had a hand in it too. Heactually broke his right hand vs Goodridge and vs Zuluzhino which is he threw almost nothing but lefts against Sylvia.

GSP did have a nog or cc in his division and his name was Matt fucking Hughes you dolt. And AGAIN...your novel posts mean shit to me because they are strictly supported by your shitty opinion. My posts are facts!!

 

[Typrune Goatley]

GSP did have a nog or cc in his division and his name was Matt fucking Hughes you dolt. And AGAIN...your novel posts mean shit to me because they are strictly supported by your shitty opinion. My posts are facts!!

You are wrong. Your posts are not facts.

Hughes was already in decline before he lost his belt and did not do much after GSP took it from him. He only beat Lytle(good win), Serra(old Hughes was actually KO'ed unconscious for a brief second in that fight) Renzo(who had no business being there) and Almeida who was also past his prime.

Hughes did not knock contenders back down the same way as Nog did to Sergei and Werdum and how Cro Cop did to Barnett and Aleks.

 

[therearnaked]

I can't put Fedor as GOAT because he hasn't fought the cains and JDS's of the world. Mind you he's from a different era then the fighters I just mentioned. I say either Cain or JDS would wreck prime fedor. GSP and Jones are neck and neck for GOAT in my opinion. Also you can't really say who's goat with active fighters, you need to let there career play out before we put anyone in the GOAT talks.

 

[MikeMcMann]

That is a particularly good picture, probably stretched, that makes Fedor looks larger than he was.

Fedor always been chubby

And no, he wasn't the ideal size for an heavyweight, by today standards, he was between 223-236 pounds with body fat.

By the way, i remember that Pride had a rule that made the fighter smaller by more than 20 pounds, or something like that, having the judge favour if the fight went to a decision.
Basically being bigger was acknowledged being an advantage during a fight.

Well I am looking at two guys who were the best of that era and they are similar enough sized that it makes no difference to mention it. Big Nog being the other again suggests that guys around that size were not fighting at a disadvantage at that size.


People get too caught up with the idea that bigger is always better and that is not necessarily true particularly at HW. Example, if Brock Lesnar only fought guys bigger than him would he have had tougher fights than fighting some of the lighter HW’s? No.


When you look at where Fedor had his most finishes it was against the bigger guys. His most decisions and tougher fighters, the ones his size, more or less.


So people always emphasizing that ‘Fedor fought bigger guys’ should not be doing that. IF he could only have fought bigger guys his record would look even better. HW’s were best around his size.

 

[13 others]

Are you insinuating that Fedor is anywhere near his Prime? Fedor first retired in 2012 well past his prime. He came back in 2015 and has looked even worse. Sure the losses after coming look bad, but they don't tarnish what he already accomplished and what he achieved makes him the best ever.

GSP on the other hand was in top form when he retired and came back looking just as good. It's an amazing feat and hugely raises his stock, but still not to Fedor's level.

Buddy. We are talking about the GOAT not who was the best during their peak. Your ENTIRE pro career is scrutinized from beginning to end when in GOAT considerations. GSP is the best ever, end of story. Anyone worth their salt agrees.

 

[george14]

No the most rational explanation is they are terrible PERIOD. Boxing doesn't have belts changing hands like hot potatoes, so your little excuse about KOs are irrelevant considering a sport where those guys hit a lot fucking harder and longer. Guys like Frank Mir, Mark Hunt, and Cro Cop being considered some of the best in their division history is absolutely laughable. Look at how a blown up LHW like DC ran rough shot through the division, or a MW KOed it's supposed GOAT and these guys have dozens of pounds of weight advantage. Sad! And if you had eyes, you'd realize just how bad these guys techniques are.

HW is the absolute worst male division historically, perhaps only surpassed today by the mess that is LHW and that's a fact. An old fat boxer went and KOed a UFC HW champion too. That doesn't make him a great MMA figher. Fedor went and beat up cans, because most of them literally were undeniably cans...and then the rest of the "talented" guys consisted of people like Kevin Randleman. Compare that to the quality of talent in any division, and it's laughably not close.

The HW division has finally gotten a couple of legitimate guys for the first time in history, including Werdum who is better than Fedor who is even better now! Deal with it.

Stopped reading at that:

Boxing has 5 fuckin titles PER WEIGHT CLASS YOU IDIOT.

 

[BowserJr]

Fedor refused to fight in the UFC & never fought under USADA.
"I'm waiting for the right heavyweight to move up" - JBJ, popped
"I stay in my category. JBJ too big" Anderson Silva, popped
"Errr I'm closer to 155 then 185" - GSP when Anderson ruled
Then GSP turned around and was 2nd in line for Bisping
"TJ Killishaw?!?! I want Ray Borg or I quit!!!" - DJ

Conor should be fighting at ww. He's too big for the small weight classes

He also had zero belt defenses.

Out of the goat debate

 

[krelianx]

It's GSP and it's really not even debatable anymore.

Jones and Anderson have popped for PEDs twice. Jones did 2/3 fights under USADA. The only fight he didn't piss hot he looked the worst he ever looked. Would have he beat Cormier, or Gustaffson of the juice? Those were close fights.

Fedor is impressive, but the quality of his competition was not even remotely in the same level as GSP, or the other guys for that matter.

- GSP was three time champion.
- GSP has been champion in two divisions, never losing the WW title.
- He has more wins against ranked competition than any other contender. He fought and beat more #1 contenders than anyone else.
- His opponents have the best combined record and average rank of all contenders.
- He beat more P4P ranked fighters than any other. Shields was the linear SF MW champion, with wins over Henderson, Okami, Lawler; was on a 15 fight streak and was a P4P top 10. Penn was top 3-4 P4P, LW champ and forme WW champ. Hughes was top 3-4 P4P.
- He is the most well rounded fighter among the contenders, barring Demetrius.
- He avenged all his loses
- He never pissed hot.

That just seals the deal.

 

[613]

Most of the HWs from the past are still fighting in the present as the top HWs. They were better on roids and in their prime.

Overeem, Hunt, Werdum etc... Are not at their physical primes, but they are far more well rounded and better fighters then in their Pride days.

 

[613]

Conor should be fighting at ww. He's too big for the small weight classes

He also had zero belt defenses.

Out of the goat debate

Conor only cuts from 170-175lb. He is way to small for WW. There are a million reasons Conor should not be in the GOAT talk, but him not fighting at WW is not one of them

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

TLDR

P4P it's GSP and it's not even debatable.

In reality (ignoring p4p bullshit) Fedor is the GOAT. The real GOAT has to be a HW.

If Fedor didn't live in Siberia and the middle of nowhere, had access to top nutritionists and gave af about weight classes, he could have made WW/MW with ease. He is not a big guy at all, pretty much GSP size, but just with a bunch of fat.

 

[hugemmafan22]

TLDR

P4P it's GSP and it's not even debatable.

In reality (ignoring p4p bullshit) Fedor is the GOAT. The real GOAT has to be a HW.

But what if that heavyweight can’t last one round against a 41 yr old middleweight?