Thoughts on Rickson's BJJ/Self Defense claims?

[GKY]

Unless he is stronger than you or thinks stabbing your arms is in the game plan or just starts waving the knife back and forth really fast, or hiding it from you while he grabs with the other hand and hides it again after stabbing your arms. To me people look like they are fumbling around when they try to grab a knife with both hands.

The modern Krav stuff I was taught is basically Karate blocks (360 blocking without the wrist snap so it is weaker) and fast counter punching (because people can stab you while they are knocked out). Holding the knifing hand and trying to wrestle is just more time you can get jacked up. People drop shit if you karate block their forearm hard enough. They lose interest if you punch them in the face (or knock them out with powerful, well trained striking and weight training).

Someone stronger than you with a knife wants to kill you and you don't have the option of running away or deescalating the situation you are almost certainly going to die. Furthermore, real knife attacks aren't from a distance where they show you the knife and start fencing. Generally you won't even see the knife until it enters your body once or twice. The thing is they don't stop with one stab and leave, they will keep stabbing you until you stop breathing.

At that point it's time to grab his wrist with both your hands, circle to the side like you're in a Russian tie, and every time he switches hands you have to switch arms. Do everything you can to make him drop the knife when it's not facing your body (biting, headbutts, groin shots, knees, punches if you have the perfect angle). If you're really lucky you might get the angle to run away. You still might receive some cuts in the process. If you have the perfect chance the karate block and counter then go for it, but if he doesn't get KO'ed then he's going to close the distance on you and then you're in real trouble. I'm not even saying my suggested defense is guaranteed to work. When someone has a weapon there are no guarantees, and you are inherently at a disadvantage regardless of how well you're trained.

Here are some videos that describe my thoughts better:

[YT]E61jnJe_1SI[/YT]
[YT]pz5iRQUdTl8[/YT]
[YT]DYGUoZyJs18[/YT]
[YT]37XiSn81oFw[/YT]


On the off chance that you actually get the see the knife before you get attacked then if he's really close control the knife hand and strike with your free hand. If he's far away then strike hard, fast, and dirty. But always remember where the knife is, because on of his stabs is worth 10 of your punches.

 

[Badger67]

^^ <3 swoon

 

[SummerStriker]

Cool videos!

Here is another take on it:

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

 

[Zankou]

I just find it amazing how people fail to listen to a man who has been in many challenge fights and is arguably one of the best ever. In my mind all he is saying is that the overall self defense aspects of the art are being lost and need to be maintained. Let's forget talking about the Ryan Hall's and the Buchecha's for a second and focus on the regular, 150lbs, hipster, who is going inverted. That guy needs to understand and realize that "his" brand of jiu-jitsu really isn't going to be effective in a situation where he has to defend his wife, girlfriend, family, or himself for that matter. I think the jiu-jitsu population as a whole has blurred the line of realistic fighting art and purely sportive activity. Is it that hard to once a week put on the fight gloves and practice clinching a punching opponent or defending punches from the guard?

The last thing in the world I am doing to 'defend my wife/family/girlfriend' whatever is relying on BJJ.

BJJ is good for drunken brawls at a family get together/wedding, fights at parties, pickup games that took a sour turn, parking lot disputes, a heated Magic: The Gathering game, etc. And this is some real utility.

Confusing it with life-and-death self defense against a true murderous assailant is just dumb. There are vastly more efficient, cheaper, and more effective ways to defend yourself in such scenarios than using BJJ.

 

[Perfect form]

What I don't understand is no one noticing Ricksons dick bleading at the end of the roll with Budo Jake. It's there a blood stain that keeps growing and growing.

 

[Badger67]

#7 is something i tell people all the time and they don't get it when we spar with the fake knives; If i cut your tendons, you aren't holding a knife. So i have no issue waiting for them to attack and i slash their wrist. Understanding your anatomy is great for knife attacks and defense.

 

[GKY]

Cool videos!

Here is another take on it:

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Your link mentions what I've been saying "Lie #17: You can successfully defend against an armed attacker". If you don't die you're going to at least end up in the hospital. I've almost been stabbed before, but I was lucky that the guy showed me his knife and put it to my chest slowly while dishing out threats. If he just cut me up right away I wouldn't be replying right now. I also have plenty of friends who've been stabbed.

Here's one last video, but be careful, it actually has footage of people getting stabbed.
[YT]GKlO3vg08qk[/YT]

 

[Badger67]

Solid video. Feel bad for the poor bloke who got stabbed blind sided while engaged with the other. Environmental awareness is always key.

 

[JohnSouth]

I've trained MMA at a few places (nothing extensive) and never heard about having to try out for the team. Lots of places separate beginners and advanced/professional, just like lots of BJJ gyms separate beginners and advanced guys. Generally it's the same coaches teaching both. Yes you can just walk in and train MMA, they just stick you in the beginners class.

Off the top of my head I checked out AKA and Kings MMA's websites and looked at their schedules.
http://akakickbox.com/aka-gym-schedule/
http://www.kingsmma.com/#!shop/chkn

They offer 3+ MMA classes a week, and don't mention anything about having to apply to be on the team. The only difference is they have additional times allocated for professional fighters that beginners aren't allowed to attend. But then again I guess AKA and Kings MMA isn't legitimate enough for you.

And even if you were right about not being able to start training MMA right away, which you're not, combat sambo is an excellent alternative.

Please link me to a time where I spelled "train" as "trane" or refereed to MMA as UFC. Sounds like you assume any beginner or anyone who advocates training MMA over BJJ for self defense can't spell and doesn't know how to differentiate a sport from an organization. Kind of judgmental eh?

Yes, MMA is harder on the body than BJJ. But if all we care about is preparing for a street fight than maybe we shouldn't care about how hard it is, just how effective it is.

Just because some legitimate knife defenses to exist doesn't mean the old school karate block -> standing americana is one of them. Real knife defense involves controlling the knife wielding wrist with both arms.

Don't get me wrong, GJJ is still great for self defense, I'm just saying MMA is better. Sport BJJ is way more than enough to get you by against the average schmuck. But if the only thing we really care about is maximizing street effectiveness while training only one style we should all just drop BJJ in any incarnation and start MMA or at least combat sambo.

OK, I've never seen a legit place offer MMA classes as a standalone. It simply doesn't exist in my area that has plenty of MMA schools and nobody has ever heard of combat Sambo. Again you are the newb and your stint at UFC gym doesn't count.

And LOL bro, every school shows 3x MMA classes on their schedule to draw in the rubes but when you show up and ask to "trane teh UFC" they roll their eyes and ask how many years of BJJ you have and herd you into the BJJ or MT class.

MMA is not better for knife and gun/baseball bat disarms. It isn't. And don't tell me people don't get stabbed and shot because I've got some crime stats for you to look at. lol

What most people consider a street fight is just an MMA fight with unsanctioned referees on a harder surface, it isn't serious and somebody would break it up anyway.

MMA at a high level is good, don't get me wrong but the average person is probably better off cross training some MT or Kyokushin and doing the GJJ if you want to be well rounded, which is great. A lot of times the MMA guys are jocks who are simply in better shape than most people have time or energy to be and use their athleticism to win fights by brawling.

Also please stop talking about GJJ, I know what technique you refer to and it is not a karate block even though it may look like it to you.

Again you THINK you know things but really a newb who never took GJJ just watch videos and trane a little UFC as a beginner and saw something you think looks like karate and you no like karate...nobody cares

 

[Veiled Threat]

There are vastly more efficient, cheaper, and more effective ways to defend yourself in such scenarios than using BJJ.

such as?

 

[JohnSouth]

don't be baited by john. he's a stalwart f12 troll.

I've made reasonable arguments that you could not in your dreams refute.

Let's face it, even if he gave you a a knife and said do you worst, Rickson would wipe the floor with you.

 

[Osstopher McGi]

such as?

Concealed carry is a good one. Coach has let me bring a replica of my usual carry, and roll with it in street clothes and using my normal holster during self defence classes to practice accessing/drawing and utilising it during a violent struggle type situation. It can be harder than one might think, but gets easier with practise.

 

[Osstopher McGi]

What I don't understand is no one noticing Ricksons dick bleading at the end of the roll with Budo Jake. It's there a blood stain that keeps growing and growing.

Lol what the actual fuck??

 

[Veiled Threat]

Concealed carry is a good one. Coach has let me bring a replica of my usual carry, and roll with it in street clothes and using my normal holster during self defence classes to practice accessing/drawing and utilising it during a violent struggle type situation. It can be harder than one might think, but gets easier with practise.

So you live a life where you always CAN and DO carry your gun on you?
sleeping you are strapped. showering you are strapped. at your kid's school strapped?
every place you go in public you are strapped?

In reality you are talking about something you don't always have with you.
Outside of the gi, everything you need for bjj you always have with you.

 

[Osstopher McGi]

[YT][/YT]

So you live a life where you always CAN and DO carry your gun on you?
sleeping you are strapped. showering you are strapped. at your kid's school strapped?
every place you go in public you are strapped?

In reality you are talking about something you don't always have with you.
Outside of the gi, everything you need for bjj you always have with you.

Good point. Its next to me in a dresser drawer when I sleep, but yeah I get what you are saying. I was pointing out that

A) I usually carry
B) I incorporate it into BJJ and see it as an extension of that in many ways; it can give one some "leverage" lol.
and C) I'm a white belt in his 40s with a busted, worn out body from excessive bar brawling and stupid stunts inmy youth; self defense is about survival, it pays to stack the deck. But I don't rate my chances in a melee brawl very highly these days.

 

[rmongler]

is there really any argument that concealed carry is not the strongest bet in terms of self-defense, short of never leaving your secret bunker hideout?

 

[LocalNmass]

I agree with Rickson for the most part.

 

[JohnSouth]

is there really any argument that concealed carry is not the strongest bet in terms of self-defense, short of never leaving your secret bunker hideout?

That is not legal everywhere.

Some states you cannot even use pepper spray without going to trial and if you shoot someone of different color (which statistically is likely to happen) you will get Zimmerman'd.

Also no excuse for not knowing how to escape a standing headlock and I guarantee plenty of guys cannot do it without wasting a minute flailing around.

Basically dudes are lazy and it's always some variation of "I'll just..."

If you do this I'll just do xyz. And usually xyz is some fairy tale bs they've never done.

Like "just take MMA or Sambo" or "Just shoot him" lol

 

[GKY]

don't be baited by john. he's a stalwart f12 troll.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realize he was a troll until he started using the word newb. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't train in anything but UFC Undisputed.

 

[thegrapplingdum]

Someone stronger than you with a knife wants to kill you and you don't have the option of running away or deescalating the situation you are almost certainly going to die. Furthermore, real knife attacks aren't from a distance where they show you the knife and start fencing. Generally you won't even see the knife until it enters your body once or twice. The thing is they don't stop with one stab and leave, they will keep stabbing you until you stop breathing.

At that point it's time to grab his wrist with both your hands, circle to the side like you're in a Russian tie, and every time he switches hands you have to switch arms. Do everything you can to make him drop the knife when it's not facing your body (biting, headbutts, groin shots, knees, punches if you have the perfect angle). If you're really lucky you might get the angle to run away. You still might receive some cuts in the process. If you have the perfect chance the karate block and counter then go for it, but if he doesn't get KO'ed then he's going to close the distance on you and then you're in real trouble. I'm not even saying my suggested defense is guaranteed to work. When someone has a weapon there are no guarantees, and you are inherently at a disadvantage regardless of how well you're trained.

Here are some videos that describe my thoughts better:

[YT]E61jnJe_1SI[/YT]
[YT]pz5iRQUdTl8[/YT]
[YT]DYGUoZyJs18[/YT]
[YT]37XiSn81oFw[/YT]


On the off chance that you actually get the see the knife before you get attacked then if he's really close control the knife hand and strike with your free hand. If he's far away then strike hard, fast, and dirty. But always remember where the knife is, because on of his stabs is worth 10 of your punches.

lold at the fat dude watching the demonstration in the first video trying to make jokes on how the guy wasn't able to block the attacks and blocked with his forearms

the only thing that guy is blocking any time soon are his arteries