Thoughts on Rickson's BJJ/Self Defense claims?

[thegrapplingdum]

Also not only that but if the guy had shoot in for a single leg takedown against his lead leg he would have done much better

And the john Fitch video just shows how mma/wrestling can actually be applied in many different forms.

 

[JohnSouth]

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realize he was a troll until he started using the word newb. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't train in anything but UFC Undisputed.

Aw talking to each other, that's cute.

The reality is neither of you practiced GJJ and are basing your opinions off videos on the internet.

That's why I call you newbs.

Most people who are so against this never trained with any legit GJJ black belts or you spent a few months decided it was too hard and moved on.

Either way your opinions are uninformed and I seriously doubt you could even get out of a standing guilitine or headlock. lol

 

[GKY]

Aw talking to each other, that's cute.

The reality is neither of you practiced GJJ and are basing your opinions off videos on the internet.

That's why I call you newbs.

Most people who are so against this never trained with any legit GJJ black belts or you spent a few months decided it was too hard and moved on.

Either way your opinions are uninformed and I seriously doubt you could even get out of a standing guilitine or headlock. lol

I'm pretty sure you're actually trolling me so this will be the last time I bite. Feel free to respond if you would like but this is where my side of the conversation ends.

I don't believe you train BJJ because if nothing else all the guys I know with at least a year of experience are very relaxed and humble people. You seem very arrogant and holier than thou. You also like to assume what people do and don't know, and unless your "GJJ" training makes you a wizard it's clear you're full of it.

I addressed your concerns with MMA gyms and you simply dismissed it by saying "well the websites are lying" without showing any proof. That's called using logical fallacy in an attempt to win an argument, which is literally the definition of trolling. In general you argue by using ad hominem, which is also characteristic of trolling behavior.

Nothing is good for disarming a person with a knife or gun. There are only options which are less bad than others. Of course MMA doesn't prevent you from getting shot or stabbed, but neither does jiu jitsu. You can easily see the posts where I addressed my concerns about knife defense and provided videos justifying my rational. You response was "oh well you have no idea how tough my sensei is". That's great buddy, but anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

Also, my BJJ gym trains self defense. We've done head lock escapes, standing guillotine escapes, punch block series, etc. I'm just not disillusioned by the bullshit. I also used to train karate, and yes that is a karate block.

But once again, I realize you're just trying to stir the pot and aren't actually interested in debating the point, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. If you do indeed have stats showing that MMA fighters get stabbed more often then GJJ fighters I would like to see them. Either way though, I'm not going to respond.

I hope you have an awesome day man. Train hard and remember to leave your ego at the door.

 

[JohnSouth]

I'm pretty sure you're actually trolling me so this will be the last time I bite. Feel free to respond if you would like but this is where my side of the conversation ends.

I don't believe you train BJJ because if nothing else all the guys I know with at least a year of experience are very relaxed and humble people. You seem very arrogant and holier than thou. You also like to assume what people do and don't know, and unless your "GJJ" training makes you a wizard it's clear you're full of it.

I addressed your concerns with MMA gyms and you simply dismissed it by saying "well the websites are lying" without showing any proof. That's called using logical fallacy in an attempt to win an argument, which is literally the definition of trolling. In general you argue by using ad hominem, which is also characteristic of trolling behavior.

Nothing is good for disarming a person with a knife or gun. There are only options which are less bad than others. Of course MMA doesn't prevent you from getting shot or stabbed, but neither does jiu jitsu. You can easily see the posts where I addressed my concerns about knife defense and provided videos justifying my rational. You response was "oh well you have no idea how tough my sensei is". That's great buddy, but anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

Also, my BJJ gym trains self defense. We've done head lock escapes, standing guillotine escapes, punch block series, etc. I'm just not disillusioned by the bullshit. I also used to train karate, and yes that is a karate block.

But once again, I realize you're just trying to stir the pot and aren't actually interested in debating the point, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. If you do indeed have stats showing that MMA fighters get stabbed more often then GJJ fighters I would like to see them. Either way though, I'm not going to respond.

I hope you have an awesome day man. Train hard and remember to leave your ego at the door.

No you are arrogant and holier than thou and the overall tone of your post is condescending despite lack of experience.

I don't need to post proof that MMA gyms don't take noobs for beginner classes because it's based on my experience training at MMA gyms. This isn't a court room where evidence is required, the standard is basic common sense.

Very few legit place teaches MMA classes to noobs, it is simply not a common practice. lol

Knife defense does work, I can't stab these guys despite my knife training. They'll block/grab onto the knife arm in one motion and fuck you up before you can do anything, there are zero karate blocks and you're not getting that arm back. You think you'll do this or that but there's no time. You simply don't know the difference and you are in no position to comment

One thing that definitely does not work for knife or gun defense is MMA and real MMA schools are not looking to train average joes so it's a moot point.

Oh and can the fake friendliness, I don't like you.

Now go back to UFC gym and take some Combat Sambo classes, they have one on every street corner. The funny thing is I trained with a Sambo guy from Russia who was absolutely brutal with gun and knife disarms although they were aikido and systema based. It wasn't a joke to him, that's a real martial artist.

While your at it look at uncle earl's catch wrestling. That's my other pet peeve "take catch wrestling bro". Too many keyboard warriors and phony skeptics. The truth is you cannot motivate yourself so it's easier to say "I don't need to know that, it doesn't work anyway. Besides I know better than Rickson". lol

 

[Kingbedlam]

That is not legal everywhere.

Some states you cannot even use pepper spray without going to trial and if you shoot someone of different color (which statistically is likely to happen) you will get Zimmerman'd.

It stands to reason that if Zimmerman knew some Bjj, he wouldn't have had to shoot the black kid in the first place. Thus, never getting Zimmerman'd.

 

[nooper]

The temerity of thinking you know better than that man is an indicator that you need to rethink things..

 

[Voodoo Dahl]

The Pedro Sauer branch of GJJ is extremely focused on selfdefense before sport. We always learned fundamental street defense scenario tactics before advanced grappling techniques. It makes tons and tons of sense.

Especially for the military and law enforcement personell i trained with.

In nonsport, hair pulling, weapon defense, headlock cranks, spine and back of the head strikes arent just on the table... but common place... the approach has to be different.

 

[Shemhazai]

When training knife defense with the security staff I worked in, we used this grip quite a bit:



I also use this in grappling to hit a mean osoto otoshi. Combine it with the hanging baseball bat 2 on 1 and a standard Russian 2 on 1, and you pretty much have all of the viable ways in which to control a weapon arm.

 

[Bosozoku]

Shemhazai, thank you for posting that. In 22 years of training that's the most interesting (first interesting) knife attack concept I've ever seen.

 

[Zearomm]

Honestly, if JJ becomes more self-defense oriented i will quit it immediately and go to football or judo.

What i love is exactly in the sport part of it, the chess that is passing a guard, the fancy sweeps and guards, watching fights, developing strategies and the list goes on...

And seeing the way jiu jitsu is evolving i say im not alone in this.

What people that brag about self defense fail to realise is that there are different motivations to practice JJ. They talk like you're wasting your time learning all of this "that dont work in the streets", but some people never wanted to learn JJ in order to survive in a real fight.

And the sport part has done much more to JJ than the self-defense.

 

[Zankou]

such as?

Weapons are incredible. Even a comparatively shitty weapon is an immense advantage.

For any serious life or death altercations, avoidance and prevention are best, calling in help and using weapons second best, and unarmed combat is a fucking fiasco last ditch option.

 

[Diode]

I've made reasonable arguments that you could not in your dreams refute.

Let's face it, even if he gave you a a knife and said do you worst, Rickson would wipe the floor with you.

lol

i take guy with the knife within 30ft of unarmed guy any day of the week, champ.

 

[Diode]

So you live a life where you always CAN and DO carry your gun on you?
sleeping you are strapped. showering you are strapped. at your kid's school strapped?
every place you go in public you are strapped?

In reality you are talking about something you don't always have with you.
Outside of the gi, everything you need for bjj you always have with you.

here in sc, yes. cwp is $40 and an instructor course.

 

[Diode]

Aw talking to each other, that's cute.

The reality is neither of you practiced GJJ and are basing your opinions off videos on the internet.

That's why I call you newbs.

Most people who are so against this never trained with any legit GJJ black belts or you spent a few months decided it was too hard and moved on.

Either way your opinions are uninformed and I seriously doubt you could even get out of a standing guilitine or headlock. lol

you're adorable.

so let's tally your experience as it grows.

took 3 judo classes
dropped in on bjj once
"gjj" weapon combat expert
knows some "mma guys"
took "knife training" classes
trained with a "Sambo guy from Russia"

 

[JohnSouth]

It stands to reason that if Zimmerman knew some Bjj, he wouldn't have had to shoot the black kid in the first place. Thus, never getting Zimmerman'd.

True, if he was a decent white belt that would not have happened.

 

[Shemhazai]

Shemhazai, thank you for posting that. In 22 years of training that's the most interesting (first interesting) knife attack concept I've ever seen.

Yeah, I think it's one of very few halfway reliable ways, if not the only, of entering a solid control position vs. a knife that is actually moving. Diving on the wrist with both hands is not bad either, but I would rather do that preemptively, as the guy reaches for or draws his weapon. Catching the wrist once the knife is moving can be very difficult

 

[JohnSouth]

Honestly, if JJ becomes more self-defense oriented i will quit it immediately and go to football or judo.

What i love is exactly in the sport part of it, the chess that is passing a guard, the fancy sweeps and guards, watching fights, developing strategies and the list goes on...

And seeing the way jiu jitsu is evolving i say im not alone in this.

What people that brag about self defense fail to realise is that there are different motivations to practice JJ. They talk like you're wasting your time learning all of this "that dont work in the streets", but some people never wanted to learn JJ in order to survive in a real fight.

And the sport part has done much more to JJ than the self-defense.

And yet this thread is about self defense...

And those same self defense guys that were able to beat other martial artists in the ring like ringing a bell are suddenly not good enough for a street fight against cans and don't know anything.

Face it, you just don't like it and don't wanna...oh no you don't. I'll get you an an ice cream and I'll make the bad man go away. lol

 

[JohnSouth]

lol

i take guy with the knife within 30ft of unarmed guy any day of the week, champ.

Depends on the element of surprise, with that you have a really good chance.

If it's confronting a guy openly trying to be a badass and he pulls out a knife knowing full well you intend to fight back it's less useful.

Sorry, I mean it's less useful, sport.

It was between sport and cupcake.

 

[JohnSouth]

Weapons are incredible. Even a comparatively shitty weapon is an immense advantage.

For any serious life or death altercations, avoidance and prevention are best, calling in help and using weapons second best, and unarmed combat is a fucking fiasco last ditch option.

Definitely a last ditch option.

But all the more reason because if you ever find yourself in that situation you will be desperate for anything that can prolong your life a few seconds more or save a little more of your blood from spilling.

 

[JohnSouth]

you're adorable.

so let's tally your experience as it grows.

took 3 judo classes
dropped in on bjj once
"gjj" weapon combat expert
knows some "mma guys"
took "knife training" classes
trained with a "Sambo guy from Russia"

Sure, got my blue belt in one day after dropping in once - at an MMA gym. Total prodigy. How exactly do you think I would know these guys? Hanging out at the Regal Beagal?

Took Kali for well over a year under an Inosanto instructor and recently started again under another Inosanto guy, been working Judo throws my whole BJJ career and I'm pretty sure I'm over 20 lessons now. lol. The reality is I train Judo every single day, I just don't have a regular teacher because it doesn't fit into my current schedule and my standup is a strong point for me.

Surprised your upset I took a couple Sambo lessons since you seem to think it's very common and a good choice.

I've trained TKD, Kyokushin, Muay Thai...basically spend every hour outside of work training striking, grappling, weapons, lifting weights, etc.

20+ years street fighting experience, almost arrested once for beating a man senseless who had a weapon...but of course street fighting is easy and you know better and nobody could have possible been a real fighter because that doesn't exist in the world of modern hipsters.