USADA...

[Gorkle]

None of this is relevant. If they think the sport is that hard, then don't do it. That is not my problem. Students have a hard life too. Some students have to walk miles to get to school. Tough shit.

My comparison with PED and a weapon was simply the idea that cheating is cheating.

PED use is cheating because PED use is against the rules. If it wasn't against the rules it wouldn't be cheating.

It is the rules that aren't right, not the thing that is against the rules.

How do you know how many percent they are catching? You don't. You are basically coming up with a solution based on a speculation.

Do you know how stupid your idea is? Basically to be a fighter, you have to spent money on designer PED. If you don't want to inject something into yourself, you will be at a severe disadvantage. Basically the goal with MMA according to you to find out which lab makes the best PED, not who is the best fighter.

Also, do you know how fast the UFC will lose all sponsorship if they allow PED. Name one company that will sponsor a league that embraces PED.

Besides, your own logic doesn't make sense. Are you saying we should just allow people to run red lights and speed because we can't catch all the guys?

Of course I don't know. But when your stereotypical gym rat somehow gets hold of this stuff is it that unbelievable that a lot of, if not a majority, of professional fighters will have access to the same or better stuff?

You clearly don't have a good enough understanding of what PEDs are and what they do. It isn't Popeye with Spinach. A bad fighter on PEDs is a bad fighter. The effects are obviously there and it is an advantage but it won't turn someone into the best fighter around.

Sponsors would not care if they were legal. If they were legal, they would be ok to use so why would a sponsor care? They're already sponsoring people having a fight, what's the difference?

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

Just let them bring knives to the octagon.

Knives were never legal in the history of mma or any type of combat sport. Bad analogy. Steroids were legal at one point.

 

[Kyler Ruxin]

Not everyone will buy the same shit. Just like not everyone will have a the same houses or the same car.

But the ironic thing is that you think busting PED users killed baseball. But legalizing PED will kill it even faster. All your sponsorship gone.

You think if extra testosterone became legal, corporate sponsors would refuse the millions or billions of dollars they make, because they would be morally against extra testosterone being legalized in sports???!!!!????


Stop it.

 

[Dragonseeker]

My comparison with PED's and sports is simply the idea that PED's are no different than lifting weights or practicing. Just something you do to be better at sports.

And again, I said we should make it legal. Protein is legal. Creatine is legal. Vitamins are legal. Asprin is legal. Make testosterone legal, and then it's not cheating.

If vitamins, creatine, and protein can do what PED does, fighters wouldn't be hiding under cages.

"Something you do to be better at sports." You mean injected synthetics right? Great. Make cemented gloves legal and it is not cheating either. If you want to use technology than use technology.

Again, if you want to immediately kill the UFC and lose all sponsorship, then go head.

 

[Dragonseeker]

You think if extra testosterone became legal, corporate sponsors would refuse the millions or billions of dollars they make, because they would be morally against extra testosterone being legalized in sports???!!!!????


Stop it.

Yeah, because there will be public pressure. You think parents want drug cheats visiting their schools? Athletes can't say the N word without losing sponsorship and the N word is not even illegal. Again, you don't think all those sports leagues would have made it legal by now if they can make super humans?

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah, and the fact is you can't do either one. So in that way, they are comparable. Again, why are you against vaseline again? Or cemented gloves? Or eye pokes?

It's the referee's job to make sure the fighters aren't using illegal techniques and weapons. They're visible to the eye so if the referee can't keep them from doing those things, they need to hire a referee who is competent.

With PEDs, there is no such thing as a "competent way of testing the fighters for PEDs." The technology for testing PEDs will always be behind the technology for making undetectable PEDs because of economic incentive. There is far more money to be made in making an undetectable PED than there is in devising more effective PED testing methods. Therefore it is and always will be dishonest to tell fighters they can't use PEDs because they'll never be able to assure them their opponents won't be on PEDs. Allowing everyone to use PEDs is the only fair way to do it. Like it or not, it's a chemical world.

 

[Kyler Ruxin]

If vitamins, creatine, and protein can do what PED does, fighters wouldn't be hiding under cages.

"Something you do to be better at sports." You mean injected synthetics right? Great. Make cemented gloves legal and it is not cheating either. If you want to use technology than use technology.

Again, if you want to immediately kill the UFC and lose all sponsorship, then go head.

UFC fighters lost all sponsorship when the Reebok deal happened.

Outside of the superstars like Ronda, Conor, Brock, and maybe to a lesser extent GSP, Jones and DC, the average fighter was making way more money pre-USADA and Reebok. Trying to "legitimize" the sport has resulted in most fighters making less money.

Juicing to the gills with a condomdepot.com tattoo across your back was far more profitable to most fighters than what we have now.

 

[Kyler Ruxin]

Yeah, because there will be public pressure. You think parents want drug cheats visiting their schools? Athletes can't say the N word without losing sponsorship and the N word is not even illegal. Again, you don't think all those sports leagues would have made it legal by now if they can make super humans?

How many NFL athletes or NBA athletes get busted?

you think it's because they don't take anything????

The people that run the sport are smart enough to make sure the tests are easy to pass. They sacrifice a couple of people year, and give them a small suspension that doesn't effect the millions they are making. An NFL player that tests positive for roids gets a 4 game suspension. Out of 16 games, plus playoffs. It's a vacation. An MMA fighter gets 2 years, and makes no money in that time. Those other leagues have basically made them legal, they just aren't as dumb about it as the UFC has been, costing themselves millions getting rid of their best fighters.

 

[Blackjack]

Not everyone will buy the same shit. Just like not everyone will have a the same houses or the same car.

But the ironic thing is that you think busting PED users killed baseball. But legalizing PED will kill it even faster. All your sponsorship gone.

It worked for PRIDE. Allowing PEDs didn't kill PRIDE. In fact they had the highest paid MMA fighters of the day. PRIDE didn't go out of business because of allowing PEDs. PRIDE's ties to the Yakuza killed them.

 

[Dark Individual]

Fook USADA

Let them bang brah

Who doesn’t want to see TRTor fuck shit up?

This exactly. Anybody that prefers a slow dad bod Vitor over a jacked TrtVitor should be eliminated along with USADA.

 

[Dragonseeker]

PED use is cheating because PED use is against the rules. If it wasn't against the rules it wouldn't be cheating.

It is the rules that aren't right, not the thing that is against the rules.

The thing is, cheating is against the rules right? You are basically saying one form of cheating is ok, but not another. That is fine, if you can provide a proper ree

Of course I don't know. But when your stereotypical gym rat somehow gets hold of this stuff is it that unbelievable that a lot of, if not a majority, of professional fighters will have access to the same or better stuff?

USADA isn't testing gym rats. If they are, how many would have gotten caught? We don't know.

You clearly don't have a good enough understanding of what PEDs are and what they do. It isn't Popeye with Spinach. A bad fighter on PEDs is a bad fighter. The effects are obviously there and it is an advantage but it won't turn someone into the best fighter around.

They would risk their career taking it if it doesn't give them that much advantage. Anderson Silva risked his legacy to take PED. Think about it.

Sponsors would not care if they were legal. If they were legal, they would be ok to use so why would a sponsor care? They're already sponsoring people having a fight, what's the difference?

Do you not understand how sponsorship works? Or PR? If the UFC legalize PED, sponsors will drop out because they fear the negative publicity. The press will never stop asking them why they are supporting drugs.

Just think about it. Why hasn't any of the major sports legalize PED yet? Baseball should have legalize it years ago right, when they were setting all those records. Because the negative press would have been so overwhelming, they would have lost support.

Again, players can't even cuss on TV. Or say racists statements. Or talk about transgenders in a negative manner.

 

[rambosabeast]

Yeah, it could be on the tail of the tape, "Joe, that fighter has been on EPO for 6 weeks, he's not gassing anytime soon"

"Joe, do you think his dry hard vascular appearance is due to that Var cycle....."

<45>

"...Jones enjoyes an 8-inch reach advantage, and their disclosed supplements are virtually identical"

 

[Dragonseeker]

It worked for PRIDE. Allowing PEDs didn't kill PRIDE. In fact they had the highest paid MMA fighters of the day. PRIDE didn't go out of business because of allowing PEDs. PRIDE's ties to the Yakuza killed them.

PRIDE didn't allow PED. They just didn't test for PED. AKA NFL style. Huge difference.

 

[Gorkle]

The thing is, cheating is against the rules right? You are basically saying one form of cheating is ok, but not another. That is fine, if you can provide a proper ree

Again you're entirely missing the point.

PED use is against the rules. Using PEDs is cheating

If PED use want against the rules, it wouldn't be cheating.

 

[Blackjack]

PRIDE didn't allow PED. They just didn't test for PED. AKA NFL style. Huge difference.

When you don't do anything to keep fighters from using PEDS, like PRIDE, you are allowing yheir use.

 

[Dragonseeker]

It's the referee's job to make sure the fighters aren't using illegal techniques and weapons. They're visible to the eye so if the referee can't keep them from doing those things, they need to hire a referee who is competent.

With PEDs, there is no such thing as a "competent way of testing the fighters for PEDs." The technology for testing PEDs will always be behind the technology for making undetectable PEDs because of economic incentive. There is far more money to be made in making an undetectable PED than there is in devising more effective PED testing methods. Therefore it is and always will be dishonest to tell fighters they can't use PEDs because they'll never be able to assure them their opponents won't be on PEDs. Allowing everyone to use PEDs is the only fair way to do it. Like it or not, it's a chemical world.

There is no way to catch everyone running the red light. Or cheating on tests. Or insider trading. Or anything. So then it is only fair that everyone can do it? I mean, technically if everyone in the olympics start running before the gun is fire, there is not way to stop every runner either. You won't have a runner left. So just forget about the gun?

And no offense, but I don't think you are an expert and I don't think you know what is a "competent" way of testing.

I don't even know why I am debating this. The UFC isn't going to legalize PED. Because they aren't as dumb as the people on this board. Just think about it. Why hasn't the MLB, NBA, NFL legalize them? It is not going to happen.

 

[Dragonseeker]

When you don't do anything to keep fighters from using PEDS, like PRIDE, you are allowing yheir use.

I agree. But that is not the same thing as legalizing PED. That is a huge difference.

There is a huge difference between Roger Goodell walking up on stage saying that the NFL will test once a year and saying we will embrace PED and everyone can use. The response from the press will be quite different

 

[Blackjack]

Again you're entirely missing the point.

PED use is against the rules. Using PEDs is cheating

If PED use want against the rules, it wouldn't be cheating.

You're right.

Interestingly enough, I started a thread a few days ago where I made what he idea you just wrote about the subject of the thread titled "The Only Sure Way To Stop Cheating." It was such a controversial idea and made the moderators at Sherdog so nervous that they moved it to wasteland. They don't want us even discussing this! They figure if its on the wasteland forum hardly anybody will see it and won;t make them look as obviously afraid of the subject as simply deleting the thread. I suspect they'll do the same with the thread.

 

[Dragonseeker]

Again you're entirely missing the point.

PED use is against the rules. Using PEDs is cheating

If PED use want against the rules, it wouldn't be cheating.

No you are. My point is, you have justify it. If PED, which is using synthetics and technology to gain an advantage isn't going against the rules, then why can't other technology and synthetics be used?

 

[Blackjack]

I agree. But that is not the same thing as legalizing PED. That is a huge difference.

There is a huge difference between Roger Goodell walking up on stage saying that the NFL will test once a year and saying we will embrace PED and everyone can use. The response from the press will be quite different

You're right; making that type of announcement would be damaging in terms of public perception. I don't believe they'd be so stupid as to suddenly make a statement such as that though. The way they would allow PEDs is to get rid of USADA and say "we'll handle this ourselves" and then just tell fighters they aren't allowed to use PEDs but do no testing.