Wanderlei Silva and CroCops lack of success in the UFC?

markg171 said:
It's amazing how these Pride fighters literally join the UFC at the tops of their careers, coming off having just won their titles / lost their titles in Pride's final sendoff events...

And then as soon as they underperform in the UFC months later they have to have become suddenly totally shot in the months in between.

Never change you Pride cucks.
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My memory might be hazy bro, but didn't Nog win the HW title and Shogun the LHW title?
Also didn't Werdum win the HW title later?

I can't be sure. I think they did ...
 
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Didn’t wanderlei get knocked out cold twice and lose a decision in the 3 fights before he went to the UFC? I know hendo hit him with the h bomb in a US pride event. As a light heavyweight you need your chin
 
It could be teh lack of blue cool-aid, he left teh ax murderer look in pride. Perhaps it was domestication with his family made him lose that edge, he was too happy to be teh ax murderer.

That said, due to the way Wandy fought differently (wilder & not very smart) he could've been bought & payed for to lose. I'm just guessing, so maybe it's legit & he just lost his edge with age, hard fights & H-Bombz n stuff, in pride... & so maybe wild swinging is all he had left.
 
By the time Crocop arrived to the UFC he had more than a decade of fighting mileage. Even in his prime things like the Randleman fight happened.
 
I love Wand and accept that he was probably past his best after Pride folded. But why do people forget that he had been in the UFC long before that and gone 0-2 there?

He was very good and a scary dude but he was also very flawed, particularly defensively.
 
A few thoughts:

1. The mileage.
2. What they had to start putting into a cup.
3. They weren't brought in to win, they were brought in for violence.
 
tomjones said:
I know that fighting in the cage offers different challenges than in a ring. But Wanderlei and CroCop had great success in Pride fc and they both failed terribly in the UFC. To me the epic difference in performance shows that there maybe other reasons.

I know people will say that CroCop was over the hill, similar to Fedors fall from grace in the cage. But Silva fought in the UFC when he was far from being over the hill, albeit abit relatively new to the game.
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Again with this???

It's not just "ring versus Octagon" that changes.

Rules also change. And they had to change/adapt and many times make them hesitant to pull the prigger.
There's also change in Venues (US Crowd is very different than the Japanese's) but far beyond that, different products, different climate, etc and all...

Besides, I don't understand what exactly are you demanding of them?
EVERYONE that were UFC champs at the time they ruled Pride also lost their belts.
From BJ to Hughes to Franklin, Chuck or Mir were all defeated, some even to Pride guys.... so why do you expect of them differently?
Or do you (again) want to try and imply only Pride guys did illegal stuff?:rolleyes:
 
Cro Cop had a lot more damage from more bouts when he entered the ufc than people acknowledge. Similar to Fedor’s career - Fedor had a lot sambo competitions, and Cro Cop had a lot of kick boxing bouts. This resulted in both fighters physical prime ending earlier due to damage, wear, etc.

It is also odd that fighters like Hunt & Overeem were gatekeepers in Pride yet on the cusp of winning UFC heavyweight gold later in their careers.

Everyones career path is different and a lot of Pride fighters did well in the UFC: Anderson, Big Nog, Rampage, Shogun, Overeem, Hunt… some did not live up to their hype such as Cro Cop, Wandy, Herring… what everyone tends to forget is that most of those fighters had a lot of fights before they entered the UFC and some were already past their prime.
 
OldBoy91 said:
Chuck and Anderson both had a winning record in PRIDE though.

Cro Cop and Wanderlei both had losing records in the UFC.
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Chuck and Anderson were in their primes when they were in Pride and UFC. Cro Cop and Wanderlei's primes ended in Pride and the latter two had way more fights than Liddell and Anderson and also fought much bigger opponents.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Chuck and Anderson were in their primes when they were in Pride and UFC. Cro Cop and Wanderlei's primes ended in Pride and the latter two had way more fights than Liddell and Anderson and also fought much bigger opponents.
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Enough of the they were washed bullshit.

Cro Cop was a world beater. Came over to the UFC and flopped, as soon as he was in an organisation with basic drug testing. Almost overnight this happened, not like it was a gradual decline.

The he leaves the UFC and starts picking up wins again, comes back to the UFC, beats Gonzaga in the rematch. Admits to using HGH even though he didn't test positive and had his contract cancelled. Went back to Japan and won 10 straight with 9 finishes in his 40s, yet we are supposed to believe he was washed by the time he was 31.

Pretty obvious why Cro Cop had the success he had outside the UFC compared to in it. And I'm not a PRIDE hater. I'm a Cro Cop fan and my favourite fighter of all time is Takanori Gomi, who also crashed and burned in the UFC. I grew up watching PRIDE, I just don't let my nostalgia for it cloud my judgment.
 
cro cop joined the UFC a few months after winning the 06 GP...but was totally on the decline. Lol, ok
 
OldBoy91 said:
Enough of the they were washed bullshit.

Cro Cop was a world beater. Came over to the UFC and flopped, as soon as he was in an organisation with basic drug testing. Almost overnight this happened, not like it was a gradual decline.

The he leaves the UFC and starts picking up wins again, comes back to the UFC, beats Gonzaga in the rematch. Admits to using HGH even though he didn't test positive and had his contract cancelled. Went back to Japan and won 10 straight with 9 finishes in his 40s, yet we are supposed to believe he was washed by the time he was 31.

Pretty obvious why Cro Cop had the success he had outside the UFC compared to in it. And I'm not a PRIDE hater. I'm a Cro Cop fan and my favourite fighter of all time is Takanori Gomi, who also crashed and burned in the UFC. I grew up watching PRIDE, I just don't let my nostalgia for it cloud my judgment.
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Enough of your bullshit that wear and tear don't matter. You always act like age is the only thing that matters and that all fighters somehow magically have the same amount of wear and tear and fights, and injuries. Everything you post on this topic is pure horse shit. Wanderlei has nearly 40 fights, had been fighting for 11+ years before he joined the UFC and lost his last 2 fights in Pride via KO. Cro Cop had been fighting for 11+ years had like 90+ fights and had been racking up injuries to his legs which is kind of a big deal for a fighter that kicks a lot.

I'm not being nostalgic, you're being ignorant.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Enough of your bullshit that wear and tear don't matter. You always act like age is the only thing that matters and that all fighters somehow magically have the same amount of wear and tear and fights, and injuries. Everything you post on this topic is pure horse shit.
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Of course wear and tear is a thing, but only PRIDE guys get to have people making excuses for them that they were well past their prime the moment they hit 30.

Only PRIDE heavyweights get to be called the GOAT despite losing to guys 3 weightclasses below them, when far more proven HWs never lost outside of the weightclass.

They also get a pass when they all inevitably popped for roids when UFC fighters get vilified for it (rightly so I might add).

Take the fanboy blinkers off and look at reality.
 
OldBoy91 said:
Of course wear and tear is a thing, but only PRIDE guys get to have people making excuses for them that they were well past their prime the moment they hit 30.

They also get a pass when they all inevitably popped for roids when UFC fighters get vilified for it (rightly so I might add).

Take the fanboy blinkers off and look at reality.
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No, Pride guys aren't the only people who use that excuse however Pride fighters fought far more often than their UFC counterparts so they generally declined at an earlier age. Like I said in my last post I'm not being nostalgic or a fanboy, you're just being ignorant about why certain fighters declined at a younger age and are ignoring reality like them having fought for over a decade before joining the UFC and having around 40 and 90 fights respectively.

Take off your hater glasses and live in reality. Comparing Liddell an Anderson to Wanderlei and Cro Cop is idiotic, Wanderlei and Cro Cop fought way more than Liddell and Anderson and joined the UFC way later in their careers, they also fought HWs and took way more damage and wear and tear before they were in the UFC.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
No, Pride guys aren't the only people who use that excuse however Pride fighters fought far more often than their UFC counterparts so they generally declined at an earlier age. Like I said in my last post I'm not being nostalgic or a fanboy, you're just being ignorant about why certain fighters declined at a younger age and are ignoring reality like them having fought for over a decade before joining the UFC and having around 40 and 90 fights respectively.
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They fought more often because they fought 3 cans every year. They fought a similar level of competition to themselves about as often as UFC guys do.

What's Wanderlei's record when you remove all the 160 pound Japanese guys he squashed?
 
OldBoy91 said:
They fought more often because they fought 3 cans every year. They fought a similar level of competition to themselves about as often as UFC guys do.

What's Wanderlei's record when you remove all the 160 pound Japanese guys he squashed?
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If he fought less often he would have had more time to prepare and he would have declined later. Like I said you aren't living in reality and you don't think your arguments through. Wanderlei nearly beat Mark Hunt when he was preparing to fight Sakuraba, you can't get a more different opponent than that.
 
Inb4 juice even tho they were roided to the gills in UFC too lol
 
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