Was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu a mistake? Deconstructing BJJ

[fishNjits]

I think the problem comes from no physical skills being developed on a BJJ mat. In wrestling you are developing reflexes and body weight strength and feel. In BJJ it’s focused on manipulating joints and strategizing in trickery, but once you know the trick it has little effect on you. You can know a great wrestler is going to wrestle you but you won’t be able to do a damn thing about it.

No.

The great advantage of BJJ over many other forms of grappling is that the fight isn't over once the practitioner is pinned. That was an incredible insight on the part of the Gracies and led to the development of the guard. And I'll say that to me, there is nothing sexier than the armbar from closed guard.

But to say BJJ is all about trickery is ludicrous. There are plenty of guys who specialize in playing on top and can bring absolutely destroying pressure. Go watch Rafael Lovato Jr. before he retired as a champion at Bellator. What Glover did to Jan wasn't trickery. Go to YouTube and google some Roger Gracie BJJ matches or see what he did to Keith Jardine in Strikeforce.

 

[campbecc]

They are both basically forms of no holds barred MMA

I assume you are talking about the fighting style developed by the Soviet military and not the modern sport?

 

[wildchild88]

The guard is dead in MMA. No one wants to try new guards or strategies, it's all about getting up. I'd love to see more focus on guard, subs, sweeps ect but the rules just don't support it so it makes sense why getting up is the go to.

This isn't true, the guard is relevant because of your taken down a guy isn't going to let you get up, you need other alternatives.. there are more important things to have, but it still has it's purpose.

Charles Oliveira and Werdum have super dangerous guards.. Ortega has a very dangerous guard..

 

[Hdfi]

Four days ago a black belt in BJJ won the LHW belt via rear-naked choke.

 

[carpediem]

Oleg Taktarov was an early tournament champion, and Shamrock fought Royce to a stalemate

Oleg won UFC 6 and Shamrock did next to nothing in Royces guard despite having a significant weight advantage.

 

[Bruce Lee666]

Four days ago a black belt in BJJ won the LHW belt via rear-naked choke.

Glover trains a lot of Wrestling too, do you think without Wrestling Glover takedown Jan like He did?!

 

[Bruce Lee666]

Oleg won UFC 6 and Shamrock did next to nothing in Royces guard despite having a significant weight advantage.

Look at Royce face

 

[DrawK]

This isn't true, the guard is relevant because of your taken down a guy isn't going to let you get up, you need other alternatives.. there are more important things to have, but it still has it's purpose.

Charles Oliveira and Werdum have super dangerous guards.. Ortega has a very dangerous guard..

Those some of the bests guards ever though. You see a lot more dominant wrestlers throughout the rankings and divisions as compared to sub artists. Wasnt there a chart floating around showing how the amount of subs completed goes down almost every year? It's still important of course but I don't see many effective with it or changing things up with new techniques at all.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Anyways, the Gracie Jiu Jiutsu always thought that position>>>>>>>submission. The only real problem is the GI, IMO. Giving positions away is the result of the, so called, american jiu jitsu or submission grappling, which, for me, it's the worse of the worse in mma, and it will never produce a champion.

You do know our current LWv champ is a submission over position grappler?

 

[Sinspartan]

Yes, it was a mistake, jiu-jitsu is not an art that is trained by MMA fighters, just like kung-fu.

 

[carpediem]

Look at Royce face

As a result one one punch landed in overtime. Other than that nothing happened. Feel free to sit through the full 30 minute ordeal to find anything else of note...

 

[The Chosen]

As a result one one punch landed in overtime. Other than that nothing happened. Feel free to sit through the full 30 minute ordeal to find anything else of note...

A black belt couldn’t do anything to a guy who just picked it up for a few weeks lol

 

[Bruce Lee666]

As a result one one punch landed in overtime. Other than that nothing happened. Feel free to sit through the full 30 minute ordeal to find anything else of note...

watching the fight again complete domination of Ken against Royce, but I agree sometimes he is too much passive in this fight.

if it was an aggressive guy like Mark Coleman against Royce he was fucked.

 

[TheMaster]

Yeah, Judo throws are awesome. 90% of them you fail and end in turtle position(being smashed and submitted in the process).

You don't , you transition to another throw. An elite Judoka will KO most non-wrestler MMA fighters and BJJers by throwing them on their heads outside in a hard surface.

The submission is the finish if necessary, on a stunned opponent.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

His last two fights would beg to differ on that. He even did a good job on his back to minimize any ground and pound Chandler could get off on him

True but he's literally said in an interview before "I'm a position over submission guy"

 

[Mulletenthusiast]

You do know our current LWv champ is a submission over position grappler?

Idk, men. He have a really long carer, and, as far i remember, his last submissions was in the guard.

 

[carpediem]

watching the fight again complete domination of Ken against Royce, but I agree sometimes he is too much passive in this fight.

if it was an aggressive guy like Mark Coleman against Royce he was fucked.

That's an understament re passivity. His whole game plan was not to lose.

Yes Coleman would wreck Royce but he and Shamrock are a little bit erm enhanced and it shows. Wheres as Royce sack of skin Gracie only did steroids when he was well over the hill

 

[carpediem]

A black belt couldn’t do anything to a guy who just picked it up for a few weeks lol

Picked it up for a few weeks?

UFC 1 was 11th of November 1993, UFC 5 was April 7th 1995. Also Ken wrestled when he was younger, had trained in Japan BEFORE Pancrase (the japanese pro wrestling initiations/training involved real/submission wrestling) and Ken has openly admitted in recent years that he was on the gear.

Thanks for playing though...

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Mitsuyo Maeda taught the Scottish-Brazilian brothers Carlos and Helio Gracie the art of judo. The evolution of Gracie Jiu Jitsu would take a turn to where throws were not a significant part of the training process because the average martial artist could not deal with the submission threats posed by a Gracie Jiu Jitsu practitioner. Fast forward to the modern day and the speed in which one can put their opponent in vulnerable situations is the most important indicator for success. It is safe to say the knowledge of submissions neutralizes most of the effectiveness of them, so that leaves the affective grapplers not being the ones who necessarily have more mat time, but the ones who have developed the technique and strength to quickly get into dominant positions. The tradition of what we call Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has in many ways taken out a critical part of fighting, and it is evident in the performance of many BJJ players inside MMA competition. Compare the vale tudo of Brazil to the SAMBO that was developed in the Soviet Union, you will notice it is almost a completely different sport even though the rule set is almost identical. MMA as we know it does owe its existence to the Brazilian model, but I don’t believe the school which many Americans inherited is necessarily the best.

Early BJJ or Gracie jiu-jitsu had more throws....only Helios take or branch of BJJ lessen the focus on takedowns as he himself could not do the throws as well as his brothers and family members( sickly child)...but its through Helios philosophy we see the effectiveness of BJJ in that no matter whos doing the takedowns or however the fight gets the floor ...its then Helios techniques begin to take over...he had to be more technical then the rest of family as power or strength moves werent possible for him

BJJ over time has become super specialized... like Boxing...its the boxing of the modern grappling world but its roots are much more free flowing...

Its grandfather martial art Japanese jiujitsu is even more wide open then judo...which only focused in the larger more aggressive movements of jiujitsu to form a sport...where japanese jiujitsu was created for life and death combat...

So no...BJJ was not a mistake...it has its place in modern and historical martial arts

 

[fortheo]

Glover trains a lot of Wrestling too, do you think without Wrestling Glover takedown Jan like He did?!

Do you think without BJJ he would have submitted Jan like he did?