Social What is your stance on abortion?

[RetiredSlave]

Id prefer it wasnt the case but otherwise Im indifferent, wouldnt protest either way. You should add the apathy option to the poll.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

There are extenuating circumstances, but in general I am very anti-abortion.
It's sheer arrogance and a little twisted to look at a forming human life and say, "I know exactly at which point this thing counts as alive - up until then, it's fair game."

The "my body, my choice" nonsense is usually just that - childish nonsense.
You failed to take the pill. You had sex. You failed to take the morning after pill. You made your choice three fucking times!

I don't think abortion is ever 'okay'. Sometimes it is a necessary evil, and sometimes, as in the case of rape, the woman's emotional rejection or traumatised perception of the pregnancy can be argued to be enough to justify its termination. But it still shouldn't be a cause for celebration, unless you're a bit of a monster.

 

[The ScorpioN]

OK, I'm totally ignorant on this subject.

First of all, are you talking about a hysterectomy?

That's the second most common procedure in America, much to my surprise.

Also, it costs four to eight thousand dollars.

Finally, apparently few doctors would perform one on someone younger than 35 years of age.

Technically, any woman of legal age can consent to the procedure, but it should be medically justified. It’s incredibly unlikely that a doctor will perform a hysterectomy on women ages 18-35 unless it is absolutely necessary for their well-being and no other options will suffice. This is because of possible physical and emotional risks. Complications during surgery can include infection, hemorrhaging, or bladder or bowel damage, but the risks of these are rather low. Long-term, it can increase the risk of stroke, bone loss, heart attacks, urinary issues, and early onset menopause in younger women. Possible complications that can impact a woman’s sex life includes vaginal dryness and a lack of interest in sex. It also prevents the possibility of a biological pregnancy, which can cause depression and psychological stress in some women.​

Tubal ligation. Tiny incisions in the abdomen. Much easier than an abortion.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

The OP is coming from 1945. Sex primary purpose is for babies. Lmfao.


You can also enjoy sex and make its primary for enjoyment and not just for making babies

 

[evansusmc2]

Edit double

 

[evansusmc2]

I have no stance on this. Not on the fence either. I’m not even in the room. I stay as far away from this one as possible.

 

[sherdogwantedtonamemekiki]

I'm a dude. Let the women figure it out amongst themselves.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

The OP is coming from 1945. Sex primary purpose is for babies. Lmfao.

This is it's primary purpose.
How are you unaware of that?

It's like food. Its primary purpose is nutrition and energy.
Now you can just indulge yourself and become a fat disgusting pig because eating can be pleasurable. But that's not it's primary purpose.

 

[Mcountry]

It's killing a person in development.

You better damn we'll have a good reason for doing that.

You don't get to just create life willy nilly and then kill it because it's inconvenient.

 

[NickNick]

Should be up to the woman to decide, not old decrepit politicians that give no fucks about the well-being of said woman.

 

[RowdyLesnar]

Free Choice! Let women decide what to do with the baby. If she wants to abort it then God will certainly punish her for it.

 

[JDragon]

I think the poll is missing some key aspects. Obviously we will not suddenly discover new aspects of the discussion, so I may quote myself here:

Now on these forums and in general, abortion is generally viewed as a black & white issue. It's either a fetus or an "unborn baby", it's either murder or a woman's right.

I get that we will likely repeat these patterns in this thread as these are often deeply rooted beliefs that we will not change in an online discussion (and we also have had dozens of these threads). I would still like to give this discussion a somewhat different spin.

Now I think one thing that both sides can likely agree on is that, all other things constant, it is not desirable to have more abortions and it would rather be good to have less of them. Opponents of abortion will agree (I hope) that as long as it exists, having less is better, and proponents will agree that having very many abortions may be indicative of problems.

Why this introductory paragraph? I spent some time looking at actual figures. Some of you may be familiar with them, I was not.

See here: Percentage of pregancies aborted by country

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/wrjp335pd.html

So in Cuba, you have 40% of pregancies aborted. In Russia, it's more than 30%, in Sweden it is around 25%. So (former) Communist states and socialist states have high abortion percentages. However, both the United States and the UK have more than 20% abortion rates.

Germany is around 13% and Switzerland around 11%.

An interesting case is the Czech Republic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_Czech_Republic

Was around 50% (!) at the end of socialist times and now is significantly below US rates. Reasons for this include (citing Wiki and my own opinion):

1) better sex education
2) wider availability of contraception
3) stricter laws (more on that below)

In the Czech Republic, there were no limitations on abortion towards the end of the Cold War and inadequate sex eduction / contraception options. Nowadays, there are similar laws to what we have in Germany:

In Germany, it is allowed until the 12th week of pregnancy, longer for medical reasons. Health insurance covers it with no increase in rates. In Germany, you need to get mandatory counseling before an abortion.

I wonder why we have a much lower abortion rate in Germany than in the US (1 in 8 vs 1 in 5). There also is no real discussion about the issue here any more.

I personally am in favor of women deciding whether to have a baby or not. However, I admit that looking at these numbers still makes me choke:

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/usac/ab-usac2-NYC.html

There are ZIP codes in NYC where two out of three pregnancies get aborted. That just doesn't seem right as this indicates to me there is a bias towards abortion instead of the other way round.

What say you, War Room? Assuming abortion stays but is generally not viewed as something where you would like to have higher numbers instead of lower, could or should something be done?

This has also been a huge influence for me. I am for allowing abortion in cases of rape* and danger for the mother's life. In all other cases, the only reason why I am against an abortion ban is that I believe the effects of such a move (women travelling abroad, back alley abortions, increased number of unwanted kids from low-IQ parents) would not be desirable for society.

But yeah. My wife is pregnant again, and seeing the little guy suck his thumb at 15 weeks was quite impressive. Germany does not allow abortions after the first trimester, after that, things must be very restrictive IMO. It is a muddy and dark topic anyway, but even going near viability is a big no-no imo.

 

[The ScorpioN]

The OP is coming from 1945. Sex primary purpose is for babies. Lmfao.


You can also enjoy sex and make its primary for enjoyment and not just for making babies

For people like Kong I support abortion until 40 years of age.

 

[Bald1]

I am one hundred percent in favor of it and against it at the same time.

Women should absolutely be able to do it, and should only do it when absolutely necessary.

Yeah, this isn't exactly a simple topic and has many important facets. Bodily autonomy, when does a fetus become a person and viability being the main ones for me.

The only things I'm set in stone, as far abortion is concerned are:
It shouldn't be used as birth control.
It should, ideally, be restricted to the first term.
The government shouldn't have a say in it.

And yeah, my second point indicates there should be regulations in place, but it's at odds with one of my fundamental beliefs that the government has no business regulating what we can and can not do with our bodies. And that circles back to the question of viability and when a fetus becomes a person. In other words, when does abortion become murder, for lack of a less dramatic term. The conflict between when the mother's bodily autonomy infringes on that of the life she carries is a push as far as I'm concerned until we can figure out the threshold between fetus/person reliably. Life doesn't automatically mean human being in my mind and that's where the issue arises in my mind.

I very much doubt this problem has a clean solution. And no, being pro choice isn't the same as being pro abortion.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

This is it's primary purpose.
How are you unaware of that?

It's like food. Its primary purpose is nutrition and energy.
Now you can just indulge yourself and become a fat disgusting pig because eating can be pleasurable. But that's not it's primary purpose.

yes if you’re a lion. I don’t want to have children so the primary purpose for me is for pleasure and enjoyment

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Pro choice but I'd like to see a woman have options like immediate adoption services if they don't think they can care for the child but don't want to abort. A lot of women abort because they feel like they have no other choice.

Most people that are anti-abortion almost inevitably have religious reasons. Pro choice to me is the reasonable and default position. Abortion at any stage or not at all would be the extreme views to me. As with everything, there's a nuanced and sensible position.

 

[Loiosh]

Yeah, this isn't exactly a simple topic and has many important facets. Bodily autonomy, when does a fetus become a person and viability being the main ones for me.

The only things I'm set in stone, as far abortion is concerned are:
It shouldn't be used as birth control.
It should, ideally, be restricted to the first term.
The government shouldn't have a say in it.

And yeah, my second point indicates there should be regulations in place, but it's at odds with one of my fundamental beliefs that the government has no business regulating what we can and can not do with our bodies. And that circles back to the question of viability and when a fetus becomes a person. In other words, when does abortion become murder, for lack of a less dramatic term. The conflict between when the mother's bodily autonomy infringes on that of the life she carries is a push as far as I'm concerned until we can figure out the threshold between fetus/person reliably. Life doesn't automatically mean human being in my mind and that's where the issue arises in my mind.

I very much doubt this problem has a clean solution. And no, being pro choice isn't the same as being pro abortion.

That's an excellent perspective.

 

[mkess101]

Scenario A: Woman is attacked while 3 months pregnant but not really yet showing. Baby/fetus dies. Woman suffers only minor injuries. Attacker is charged and convicted of murder of the unborn child. Under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act the attacker can be prosecuted this way.

Scenario 2: Pregnant women 3 months into pregnancy decides she doesn't want to keep the baby. Abortion, legal, that's it.

Yeah it's a complicated issue but how hypocritical are we? Something is what it is. It doesn't change based on someone else's intentions. It's a baby...or it's not. It's not murder when someone else kills it but just a medical procedure when the mother does.

Can we at least be consistent? Just decide if it's a baby or not.

 

[Rocco Siffredi]

Abortions should be legal only in the first term IMHO.

why? doesn't make any sense. It is living and it is human

 

[PrinceOfPain]

yes if you’re a lion. I don’t want to have children so the primary purpose for me is for pleasure and enjoyment

You're using a child's logic to deflect responsibility.
What you prefer is not what defines "primary purpose". Sexual intercourse between reproductively compatible members of the same species serves the primary purpose of reproduction. To completely ignore that is wildly irresponsible and it explains why you're likely pro-abortion.

The primary purpose of a gun, for example, is to kill. You might fire it wildly into the sky because that's fun, but that does not make entertainment a gun's primary purpose. I'm not saying you shouldn't have fun with your gun. But if you forget what it's actually for while you're playing with it, you're just irresponsible as hell.