Who's really crossing the US Border.

[SaiWa]

Thanks, but when the hell did previous administrations prioritize finding a solution to this problem?

I don't remember enough about the Carter nor the Regan administration to really opine but I certainly remember all of them since and ever single administration has been ridiculed at one time or another regarding their poor border protection practices.

Also, shutting down the border. I had in mind those arriving by plane as well. I really have no problem if they drastically curb the entrance of people form certain countries.

The income tax- or some extra tax for having caused such a hassle and the extra spending of government resources by having entered the country illegally. Call it a fine then?

3 strikes? You are too forgiving, most likely a better person than me.

You're advocating for a Berlin wall style border with our neighbors? Should we create a buffer zone and litter it with landmines as well, set up mortars and missiles and upgrade to NK/SK style border zone?

You seem to think illegal immigration is a huge issue whereas I do not. I've worked and have been around illegal immigrants most of my life (hang out in Chinatown). They don't take white collar jobs. They take jobs that natives don't wanna do because it is beneath their stature. They're out in the fields picking our veggies and fruits all day long under the sun for low wages. they generally don't buy nice clothes or fancy things and save every single penny they got. sometimes they have loved ones home and they send every spare money they can get. and most importantly they stay under the radar.

when my grandma slowly withered away from Alzheimer disease we hired an old Chinese lady illegal immigrant to take care of her. Nice sweet old lady who didn't speak a lick of English and was essential a nanny for hire for Chinese people. She wheels around a small luggage with all her belongings and looks for nanny jobs in Chinatown. All the money she makes she sends back to her family in China. My mother and I bumped into her not too long ago and my mom gave her a small gift of money for Chinese New Year.

Most of them are people who just want to live a better life.

 

[MiniCraque]

i legit think most people literally don't care, like in the slightest

most people realize they aren't getting jobs stolen ( if your job is jacked by a non skilled laborer that doesn't speak English, not sure what to tell you; if it's jacked by an educated white collar person...step your game up then)....

Obviously the vast vast majority are just regular people trying to have a better life, not human or drug traffickers or something

after that it's like, 'ok, and?'

Ok, and that dismantles the (very very frequent) talking point about immigration being a crime issue. The talking point that we keep hearing about to this day. The same one repeated by a lot of War Room posters.

If immigrants aren't really a problem when it comes to crime, don't steal jobs from natives, don't put a heavy (as in unpaid) burden on public infrastructure and aren't flooding the country to the point of creating overpopulation (which isn't the case), then treating immigration as a cornerstone of any public platform is a rather misguided focus of political capital and government resources.

That's an important argument in today's political climate and the data presented by OP supports it.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Except we as a country do not have endless resources to placate non stop immigration of low skilled workers

It’s not fair to the lower class already within the borders. Schools & Healthcare are also affected

And with the oncoming automation things will likely get much worse in the future

People advocating more and more low skilled immigrants don’t seem to understand that there might be a future where the majority of them become jobless resulting in an incredible strain on the already strained system.

America could easily become a country where the VAST majority of the population is poor and subsidized

those are fair pts, i'm not arguing FOR it, i'm just saying most people don't care.

They should, if your pt holds true and automation continues to come into play. But that's more an indictment on our Service economy requiring virtually no skill or even an understanding of a language if someone can swoop in from Juarez and steal an American citizen's job.....

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Ok, and that dismantles the (very very frequent) talking point about immigration being a crime issue. The talking point that we keep hearing about to this day. The same one repeated by a lot of War Room posters.

If immigrants aren't really a problem when it comes to crime, don't steal jobs from natives, don't put a heavy (as in unpaid) burden on public infrastructure and aren't flooding the country to the point of creating overpopulation (which isn't the case), then treating immigration as a cornerstone of any public platform is a rather misguided focus of political capital and government resources.

That's an important argument in today's political climate and the data presented by OP supports it.

Immigration is the boogeyman, period. It was the 'watch out for.....' thing before terrorism, and the go to response when fear has to be drummed up...that or drugs/guns, depending on which side is arguing.

Not saying there are no issues regarding our immigration process/border/whatever (I'm from San Diego, and lived in El Paso so I've been around it quite a lot), but I don't recall anyone ever stealing a nuke Sum of All Fears style and sneaking it in, or anything even remotely resembling such a lack of security.

It helps we are in the Western hemisphere, if we're in say Europe and were part of this recent migrant crises I would feel entirely different about this, we actually vet people tho

 

[nostradumbass]

I haven't seen a single person try to actually refute the statistics and facts from @PolishHeadlock's OP. It's almost like the people opposed to immigration have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

In fact, it's exactly like that. Why let the actual facts get in the way of some good old fashioned fear mongering?

Gimme the stat and I'll do a little research to find out how they're lying. I already found out the "fewer crimes than native born population" was horse shit because the comparison was to juvenile offenders. My HS had the ESL program, my ex was a teacher at a middle school full of illegals, and fucking nobody who's had any interaction with illegals thinks they're pie-eyed victims.

 

[HomerThompson]

Gimme the stat and I'll do a little research to find out how they're lying. I already found out the "fewer crimes than native born population" was horse shit because the comparison was to juvenile offenders. My HS had the ESL program, my ex was a teacher at a middle school full of illegals, and fucking nobody who's had any interaction with illegals thinks they're pie-eyed victims.

It's all in the OP. Have at it. But anecdotal bullshit won't cut it.

Make a serious case for your position, and I'll listen to it.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I know it's wiki, but it literally links to like 30 different studies:
"There is no empirical evidence that either legal or illegal immigration increases crime in the United States.[151] In fact, most studies in the U.S. have found lower crime rates among immigrants than among non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants are associated with lower crime rates.[1][152][153][154][155][156][157][158][159][160][161][162][163][164][165][166][167][168][169][170][171][172][excessive citations] These findings contradict popular perceptions that immigration increases crime.[1][173] Some research even suggests that increases in immigration may partly explain the reduction in the U.S. crime rate."

Just inherently, people here illegally in general have much more reason NOT to have ANY encounters with law enforcement, herego they are likely to commit less crime....Unless of course the sole reason that person is here is to commit crime (drug cartel members).

Now if we just opened the floodgates to ANYONE, then yes, i'm sure that would increase crime. But it's pretty hard to get here LEGALLY, and you have reason to stay in general if you're here ILLEGALLY, right?

 

[MiniCraque]

Immigration is the boogeyman, period. It was the 'watch out for.....' thing before terrorism, and the go to response when fear has to be drummed up...that or drugs/guns, depending on which side is arguing.

Not saying there are no issues regarding our immigration process/border/whatever (I'm from San Diego, and lived in El Paso so I've been around it quite a lot), but I don't recall anyone ever stealing a nuke Sum of All Fears style and sneaking it in, or anything even remotely resembling such a lack of security.

It helps we are in the Western hemisphere, if we're in say Europe and were part of this recent migrant crises I would feel entirely different about this, we actually vet people tho

It seems like we're mostly in agreement, which is why I didn't get why you were dismissive towards the OP.

It may sound obvious to you or me, but it still fundamentally clashes with the fearmongering we see across the country and in this very thread (even after you posted), so it always bears repeating.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

It seems like we're mostly in agreement, which is why I didn't get why you were dismissive towards the OP.

It may sound obvious to you or me, but it still fundamentally clashes with the fearmongering we see across the country and in this very thread (even after you posted), so it always bears repeating.

marijuana is still illegal in the majority of the US, tens of thousands are currently in jail for it.

Fearmongering is what the US does my dude, it's how the rich control the peons

If the DOJ and others don't paint immigrants and just criminals in general as huge massive threats, how are they supposed to warrant things like asset/property seizure and the like?

 

[MiniCraque]

It's all in the OP. Have at it. But anecdotal bullshit won't cut it.

Make a serious case for your position, and I'll listen to it.

 

[HomerThompson]

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on that one.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ata-show/?utm_source=reddit.com&noredirect=on

President Trump this weekend lamented what he characterized as an invasion of undocumented immigrants that is “very unfair to all of those people who have gone through the system legally and are waiting on line for years.”

But illegal border crossings represent a relatively small share of the number of people who enter the country, legally or otherwise, in any given year, according to the Department of Homeland Security's data.

A September 2017 Office of Immigration Statistics data brief estimated that in fiscal year 2016, the latest year for which complete data is available, there were 170,000 successful illegal border crossings occurring outside of authorized ports of entry. That's down roughly 90 percent since 2000, and it's about one-seventh of the roughly 1.2 million immigrants who obtained lawful permanent resident status via a green card, according to the Department of Homeland Security.


The number of successful border crossings doesn't include illegal entries that happened via border checkpoints (people smuggled in via vehicles, for instance) or over sea. That number is not available for 2016, but in previous years it added anywhere from 10 to 20 percent to the total number of illegal entries, according to a 2016 Institute for Defense Analyses report commissioned by the Department of Homeland Security.

It's worth pointing out that at the policy level there's no direct relation between the number of green cards granted and the number of illegal crossings in a given year. Illegal entries don't decrease the number of green cards available, for instance, so while it's undoubtedly frustrating for people waiting on green cards to know that others are simply hopping the border, they're not experiencing any harm as a direct result of it.

Border crossings don't even account for a majority of the people joining the unauthorized population in a given year. In fiscal 2016, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security estimated 628,799 people who had previously entered the country legally overstayed their visa that year. Other groups, such as the Center for Migration Studies, have similarly estimated that visa overstays account for about two-thirds of the total number of people joining the undocumented population in any given year.

“The number attempting to get across the Southern border is probably the lowest it's been since at least the 1970s,” said Robert Warren, a demographer with the Center for Migration Studies. “I'm surprised the [Trump] administration hasn't really focused on overstays. That's where the action is.”




Overall, DHS estimated in the fall that, based on Institute for Defense Analyses numbers, “successful illegal entries fell 91 percent between 2000 and 2016,” although DHS cautions that it's still updating and refining the methodology used to generate that estimate. Those figures largely comport with separate data sets, such as Customs and Border Protection's data on border apprehensions, showing a dramatic decrease in activity at the border over the past decade.

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country,” Trump said on Twitter this past weekend. But the premise behind these words is false. The latest federal data, compiled by President Trump's own Department of Homeland Security, indicates that most immigrants who enter the country do so legally. The number entering illegally, meanwhile, continues to drop precipitously.

 

[Ophydian]

Why would gang members admit to being gang members when apprehended?

Gang members have these things called tattoos, it’s kind of like a branding. No need to admit being part of a gang. You’re just another Republican who has no clue about the immigration issue and you are just spouting BS talking points.

 

[nostradumbass]

It's all in the OP. Have at it. But anecdotal bullshit won't cut it.

Make a serious case for your position, and I'll listen to it.

K, well these are border apprehensions, so only the dumbest people who can't cross our porous border. For whatever reason, let's take his as true. Do you think it's ok to invite crime here as long as it gets deluded by non-criminals?

Do you think being a coyote is a legitimate profession?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I know it's wiki, but it literally links to like 30 different studies:
"There is no empirical evidence that either legal or illegal immigration increases crime in the United States.[151] In fact, most studies in the U.S. have found lower crime rates among immigrants than among non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants are associated with lower crime rates.[1][152][153][154][155][156][157][158][159][160][161][162][163][164][165][166][167][168][169][170][171][172][excessive citations] These findings contradict popular perceptions that immigration increases crime.[1][173] Some research even suggests that increases in immigration may partly explain the reduction in the U.S. crime rate."

Just inherently, people here illegally in general have much more reason NOT to have ANY encounters with law enforcement, herego they are likely to commit less crime....Unless of course the sole reason that person is here is to commit crime (drug cartel members).

Now if we just opened the floodgates to ANYONE, then yes, i'm sure that would increase crime. But it's pretty hard to get here LEGALLY, and you have reason to stay in general if you're here ILLEGALLY, right?

And that's why I made the thread.

You got Trump and posters here referring to people as animals, making wild claims about MS-13 and using buzz words like "flood", "Infestation" etc..

You also have false comparisons to European immigration processes.

The US has been doing a great job in regards to border control and immigration in general.

So when we start separating families and Trump is talking about getting rid of Due Process we need to look and see if there is even an actual problem to begin with.

It doesn't look like we have a meaningful problem with illegal immigration.

 

[Streeter]

Only future hard working n caring people cross the border just looking to netter their families. ........ right?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

It doesn't look like we have a meaningful problem with illegal immigration.[/QUOTE]
i'm not sure we ever will

The northern border is cold as balls most of the year and awfully frontiersy..
We have an ocean on both sides...
And large deserts and the Rio Grande along the Southern Border...

We don't have people dying by the hundreds taking makeshift rafts from Libya across a really large lake essentially

The same thing that prevents us from being 'invaded' militarily, also does much to prevent an invasion of immigrants

 

[PolishHeadlock]

 

[Pessimystic]

With approaching 20 million living in poverty and half a million homeless, many of them vets, in the US, I really don't care whether they are criminals or not.
We need to take care of our own.
The US isn't supposed to be Mexico's pressure valve. It blows my mind how these people think they are entitled to just waltz right on in, and we are to just bend over and take it.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

With approaching 20 million living in poverty and half a million homeless, many of them vets, in the US, I really don't care whether they are criminals or not.
We need to take care of our own.
The US isn't supposed to be Mexico's pressure valve. It blows my mind how these people think they are entitled to just waltz right on in, and we are to just bend over and take it.

Luckily they aren't preventing the US from addressing any of that.

But the GOP is in too of it with their plan to slash funding for food stamps, social security, Medicare etc.....

And luckily Trump nominated a highly qualified person to run the VA