Today in 1945, Mussolini is executed by the Italian resistance; is fascism reemerging?

[ultramanhyata]

Watch a documentary called Europa the Last Battle (all on YouTube, 15 hours long approximately).

BRB

 

[Chinballs]

Winner wrights history... seems like an obvious point that is rarely included in arguments.

 

[Kframe]

Seriously, why is it impossible for reactionary parts of the right to engage in adult discussion?

Even if there are what you believe to be slanderous implications, why don't you point them out and actually support your point, instead of vaguely saying "you're slandering and insulting" without ever bearing the burden of addressing the topic?


It's fucking incredible how almost pathologically opposed right wingers are to substantive debate...or critical self-analysis in general.



A prime example of what I'm talking about, and ODB is actually one of the more courageous/confronting right-wingers here, and yet he still mostly just defaults to indirect insults so as not to actually engage substantively and instead just skip along in merry bliss.

Your idea of substantive debate is just shitting all over right wingers while shutting down any mention of left wing examples people have pointed out. All this is, is one big fuck you fest against half the fucking population of the US.

 

[splendica]

Winner wrights history... seems like an obvious point that is rarely included in arguments.

Agreed.

 

[ultramanhyata]

The fascists had to answer for their crimes. The Marxists have not.

I don't know much about Fasc. Were his writings as misappropriated by self-described Fascists as the writings of Marx were by self-described Marxists?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

i mean the Democrats are literally still trying to rig Primaries for their corporate backed (pre Primary of course) candidates

but but the Russians
https://theintercept.com/2018/04/26/steny-hoyer-audio-levi-tillemann/

 

[Jack V Savage]

i didn't say she should be arrested, find me once saying that...

That's what I'm talking about, though. That's what Republicans wanted, even though there was no cause for it.

If democracy dies in America, it won't be from Constitutional amendments or a party running on an "end democracy" platform. It'll be something exactly like that--some petty bullshit that a presidential candidate is accused of leading to an arrest right before an election, followed by mass resistance from supporters, followed by a need to put that resistance down to restore order (maybe making the party illegal). That came close to happening. Likewise, we have Americans who don't support freedom of religion because some people are practicing the wrong religion and don't support freedom of the press because the media is reporting on stuff that the president would prefer not get covered, etc. This shit isn't some remote possibility in the distant future--the current climate is that the right in America is very close to supporting an end to constitutional governance.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Bill?

He settled for sexual assault. Play word games if you like. He’s a sexual predator, unless you consider Cosby a pharmacist...

Haha, no. Fucking Dipshit Trotsky is not actually ‘capable of better than this’

 

[Trotsky]

Your idea of substantive debate is just shitting all over right wingers while shutting down any mention of left wing examples people have pointed out. All this is, is one big fuck you fest against half the fucking population of the US.

No, it's not. This is pretty elemental: the features of fascism are laid out, they are tied to historical examples, and then are evoked in contemporary examples. Then, I went on to cite specific definitional components to further craft your arguments for you.

Any rational adult right-winger (such as those cited in the National Review) would be able to discuss this topic. I made a point of using a bevy of sources as reference points so you guys could figure out someway to engage the material. I'm not (with the exception of the first source) citing to left-wing publications. There are numerous political historians who specialize in the developmental features of fascism and have opined, yet you all are too cowardly and/or stupid to respond to their opinions. And, honestly, an intelligent response would be no more than "yeah, Trumpism has a strong fascist undercurrent but it's different because XYZ, or I support it nevertheless because ABC, or I disagree with the definitional components of fascism and would instead characterize it as such---." But. you. can't.

Just admit that you cannot proffer an intelligible response, so you all have filled this thread to the brim with insults and deflections: not a single one of you (besides Bob, god bless him) has even attempted to engage the topic. As I said earlier, it's absolutely maddening how worthless the reactionary wing of the Western right has now become: you are actively refusing to defend yourself, because you know there is nothing logical or historically or even factually informed about your platforms.


^That was shitting all over you, because you refuse to argue like men and insist on instead bitching and moaning about how everyone - scientists, economists, historians, journalists, barely sentient toddler - are against you. When in reality you're just fucking morons. That is a big fuck you.

 

[Trotsky]

Winner wrights history... seems like an obvious point that is rarely included in arguments.

See, this is all that it took to present a viable avenue for disagreement.

However, it is natural that it came from a non-American: the right-wing in the States is pretty well indoctrinated toward propagandized objectivism, i.e. fascism is definitionally evil, communism and socialism are definitionally evil, etc. that most cannot stomach to openly support or defend fascism.

 

[HatchetHarry]

Not even close.

You need to learn some history

 

[bobgeese]

JFC, your delusion is just strange. You responded to that post, committing the same blatant fallacies that the post called out and rebutted. Frankly, fuck it, if you think you know better than political scientists and historians and that factual dissimilarities between Trump and literally any other politician ever don't exist, then have at it. You can live in whatever moronic fairy tale land you prefer.

So you can’t counter the point that trump hasn’t done anything that his predecessors haven’t already done.

Got it.

 

[bobgeese]

Haha, no. Fucking Dipshit Trotsky is not actually ‘capable of better than this’

LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLL


I’ve seen him make some insightful posts though.

 

[Seaside]

Ok, for the record, the first time I watched it (out of urging from a non-white friend of mine), I was put off by things like that. Again, as said, I don't agree with everything said or presented in the documentary. Also, I believe that clip is of someone (a marine) who was in a boat shot at by Israelis.

As said, not anti-Jew, but am anti-communist. If Judaism and communism are the same thing, it gives me pause on Judaism.

The thing is, it's a good idea to analyze these things. And in the case of that documentary, I felt like I was an opposite perspective, again, not everything I agreed with. Also, as already stated, my biggest takeaway was the havoc of communism in Russia and Eastern Europe. Some minor takeaways for me was the manipulation of the media/propaganda and nationalism as even presented by figures such as Muhammad Ali.

are you joking? judaism is nothing like communism first of all communism end game is the opposite of what the jewish religion or any abrahamic religion or most religions want.

This isn't about this conversation at all, isn't it?

I know it's not.

You can't think outside of boxes (like most leftists can't).

It's very communist and Democrat to demonize in swaths. That's why you conflate religion with race. It's why you've latched onto a term antisemite when clearly I've said that I'm not.

The reality is in almost every historical recounting you have to investigate all sides.

It's the very reason people don't know that tens of millions of Russians (up to 60 million) died at the hands of communists.

You know something else? That documentary series went further into the horrors of communist Russia and the Gulag than I've ever seen.

Too, as I said clearly, I believe in a Jewish state - Israel. Oh, how antisemitic of me?

Anyway, conversation over.

60 million people did not die because soviet union and more than just russians died. That video also makes up lies about socialism, communism, marxism, soviet union, paints the oppressive romanov family as heros praise nazis, pretends nazi were justified and fighting defensive war. And then makes the blood libel accuasation of jews and talks about them liking to gut people open.

 

[Trotsky]

Haha, no. Fucking Dipshit Trotsky is not actually ‘capable of better than this’

And here's the 20th right winger who comes into this thread, lobs insults, but can't engage the topic. Just pathetic. Utterly resigned to parody at this point.

Right-wing libertarianism is already a very authoritarian ideology (as many proponents acknowledge).

FTR, I agree with your logic, but I would still hesitate to call right-libertarianism a "very authoritarian ideology" since authoritarianism is an effect, rather than a feature, of its actualization.

So you can’t counter the point that trump hasn’t done anything that his predecessors haven’t already done.

Got it.

You haven't made a point, let alone that point. Again, you've just repeatedly deflected with false equivalencies.

 

[bobgeese]

And here's the 20th right winger who comes into this thread, lobs insults, but can't engage the topic. Just pathetic. Utterly resigned to parody at this point.




FTR, I agree with your logic, but I would still hesitate to call right-libertarianism a "very authoritarian ideology" since authoritarianism is an effect, rather than a feature, of its actualization.



You haven't made a point, let alone that point. Again, you've just repeatedly deflected with false equivalencies.

Trump has done nothing presidents before him haven’t also done.

My point is clear.

PS, I have yet to lob an insult, except to say you’re wrong with regard to it happening in the US.

 

[Roaming East]

So you can’t counter the point that trump hasn’t done anything that his predecessors haven’t already done.

Got it.

eeeeeh....Trumps problem is that he is the perfect, living embodiment of the Ugly American stereotype. He is literally the very first president, to completely lack a basic level of sophistication, class, and decorum, one would expect from not only a basic politician, but the goddamn leader of the worlds most powerful country. Say what you want about Obama or Dubya or Reagan Carter etc, they at least acted the part of a leader. Dubya was a bit more 'down to earth' than would normally be expected but the guy knew how government functioned and what not to do at a basic human level.

Trump shoves coke and Big Mac's down his face while raging on fucking Twitter about celebrities. He has NO IDEA what his job actually entails, and seems confused that he cant rule by fiat and that people dont HAVE to do what he tells them to. He not only has no idea how government is run, but has no idea how to even properly hire the people that DO. We are going balls deep into his first term and how many positions remain unfilled in his administration? The worst part is that WE FUCKING LET HIM DO IT. Obama or Clinton would have been before a congressional hearing by now if they violated the emoluments clause like this guy does. You'd never hear the end of it if Obama was even HALF as lazy at performing vital functions as Trump is, and we know it because Republicans cried about him playing golf, while Trump has played more rounds of golf in his first year than Obama did in 8.

Republicans are the definition of 'do as i say not as i do'. All you can do is grin and bare it when some GOP 'moral majority christian fundamentalist' gets busted get his pecker sucked off by some cabana boy in a motel 8.

 

[bobgeese]

eeeeeh....Trumps problem is that he is the perfect, living embodiment of the Ugly American stereotype. He is literally the very first president, to completely lack a basic level of sophistication, class, and decorum, one would expect from not only a basic politician, but the goddamn leader of the worlds most powerful country. Say what you want about Obama or Dubya or Reagan Carter etc, they at least acted the part of a leader. Dubya was a bit more 'down to earth' than would normally be expected but the guy knew how government functioned and what not to do at a basic human level.

Trump shoves coke and Big Mac's down his face while raging on fucking Twitter about celebrities. He has NO IDEA what his job actually entails, and seems confused that he cant rule by fiat and that people dont HAVE to do what he tells them to. He not only has no idea how government is run, but has no idea how to even properly hire the people that DO. We are going balls deep into his first term and how many positions remain unfilled in his administration? The worst part is that WE FUCKING LET HIM DO IT. Obama or Clinton would have been before a congressional hearing by now if they violated the emoluments clause like this guy does. You'd never hear the end of it if Obama was even HALF as lazy at performing vital functions as Trump is, and we know it because Republicans cried about him playing golf, while Trump has played more rounds of golf in his first year than Obama did in 8.

Republicans are the definition of 'do as i say not as i do'. All you can do is grin and bare it when some GOP 'moral majority christian fundamentalist' gets busted get his pecker sucked off by some cabana boy in a motel 8.

I couldn’t care less about Trumps decorum, he’s on the verge of eclipsing every president back to Reagan.

Maybe we should have hired the ugly American stereotype a long time ago.

 

[Karasu-Hanta]

I am pro Jew. I believe the Jews should have a homeland as an Israeli state. I don't agree with all of the means about which it came to be, but it did nonetheless just like the rest of human history came about.

Further to this, the main point that I feel is solid in that documentary is the documenting of the atrocities against the Russian, Polish and Ukranian peoples. Many of the other points the documentary makes I'm not certain on (am still researching endlessly).

And as I'm sure you know, there are Jews who are against Zionism (abiG for example).

AbiG is not a Jew he is a Muslim that pretends to be Jewish so he can further his goals of destroying the Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

 

[Karasu-Hanta]

Ok, for the record, the first time I watched it (out of urging from a non-white friend of mine), I was put off by things like that. Again, as said, I don't agree with everything said or presented in the documentary. Also, I believe that clip is of someone (a marine) who was in a boat shot at by Israelis.

As said, not anti-Jew, but am anti-communist. If Judaism and communism are the same thing, it gives me pause on Judaism.

The thing is, it's a good idea to analyze these things. And in the case of that documentary, I felt like I was an opposite perspective, again, not everything I agreed with. Also, as already stated, my biggest takeaway was the havoc of communism in Russia and Eastern Europe. Some minor takeaways for me was the manipulation of the media/propaganda and nationalism as even presented by figures such as Muhammad Ali.

"cough you're a Nazi cough cough"