Spain to Push for European Recognition of Palestine: We May Go It Alone if That Fails

[Seaside]

For folks reading along, I must ask, how crazy it is to claim land some relation to you might have had 3000 years ago? Ridiculous, right? I mean does that mean all of us who came over here from Asia 1000s of years ago can now go steal homes in China?

While these people crack me up, in modern times, the world has been pretty clear.

Recently, Colombia became the last country in South America and the 137th member of the United Nations to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state...
https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-recognize-palestine-colombia-becomes-137-un-member-1068318

And a few years back when the number was at 135 it looked like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-palestine-as-a-state/?utm_term=.4e3200065e6a

Outside of zionism, Palestine has existed for centuries.

Lets hope Jair bolsonaro becomes president of brazil. Because he knows that palestine doesnt exist and will move embassy to jerusalem and stop Brazil from recognozing palestine which doesnt exist in reality it is just arab sunni supreamcism crying about land . And like i proved before. Most people in latin american dont care it was their leaders who recognized palestine not popularity vy people.

When europe goes right wing they will see israel is superior to the sunni arabs. Just wait and see. The world is waking up to islamism.

 

[abiG]

Lets hope Jair bolsonaro becomes president of brazil. Because he knows that palestine doesnt exist and will move embassy to jerusalem and stop Brazil from recognozing palestine which doesnt exist in reality it is just arab sunni supreamcism crying about land . And like i proved before. Most people in latin american dont care it was their leaders who recognized palestine not popularity vy people.

When europe goes right wing they will see israel is superior to the sunni arabs. Just wait and see. The world is waking up to islamism.

Interesting, @oleDirtyBast4rd would not answer these two simple questions. Maybe you would like a shot.

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

 

[snakedafunky]

When europe goes right wing they will see israel is superior to the sunni arabs. Just wait and see. The world is waking up to islamism.

Yep, the first thing right-wing Germans will do is admitting Jews are superior to Arabs.

 

[Seaside]

Yep, the first thing right-wing Germans will do is admitting Jews are superior to Arabs.

No but if you arent blind and see how globally right wingers are more and becomih more pro Israel with similarity of fighting against african hordes and islamist sunni exoanisionists. Well natural allies to fight common enemy. The nazi types might actually seek alliance with Arab sunnis as they did during ww2 to tske care of jews first. Etc

 

[snakedafunky]

No but if you arent blind and see how globally right wingers are more and becomih more pro Israel with similarity of fighting against african hordes and islamist sunni exoanisionists. Well natural allies to fight common enemy. The nazi types might actually seek alliance with Arab sunnis as they did during ww2 to tske care of jews first. Etc

Mate nationalists and right-wingers in Europe consider the Palestinian situation a holocaust.
There is a saying among them in German roughly translated "First Dresden now Gaza".
They blame Israel as one of the big factors for the refugee streams.
And the top guy from the AFD said that Germany shouldn't support Israel and another high ranking guy said there shouldn't be any holocaust memorials in Germany.
That is not just in Germany. Anti Israel stands are very popular all over Europe in nationalist and right-wing circles.

You live in a fantasy world if you think there is some kind of globally right-wing movement. They are all completely different the only thing they have in common is an anti-immigrant stand.
France and German far right wing are socialists for example. And the one in Italy has almost Green Party policies.

A pro-Israel stand is an American thing but not a European thing.

 

[Seaside]

Mate nationalists and right-wingers in Europe consider the Palestinian situation a holocaust.
There is a saying among them in German roughly translated "First Dresden now Gaza".
They blame Israel as one of the big factors for the refugee streams.
And the top guy from the AFD said that Germany shouldn't support Israel and another high ranking guy said there shouldn't be any holocaust memorials in Germany.
That is not just in Germany. Anti Israel stands are very popular all over Europe in nationalist and right-wing circles.

You live in a fantasy world if you think there is some kind of globally right-wing movement. They are all completely different the only thing they have in common is an anti-immigrant stand.
France and German far right wing are socialists for example. And the one in Italy has almost Green Party policies.

A pro-Israel stand is an American thing but not a European thing.

Are you ignoring the right wing in latin america or canada and australia and USA? Who all want to move embassies to jerusalem? The canadian conservative party just approved resolution to move embassy to Jerusalem if they get into power.
Your talking ot your ass now. You are German and you think the rest of continent acts like Germany not true.

Poland
Hungary
Czech
Romania

Are 4 countries attended the Israel US embassy opening snd have parliaments that love Israel and people. Romania to. Czech approved the movr as did romania it was only the presidents who said hold on wait because they are afraid to anger the French and German ruled EU. Then you have geert wilders in Nederlands and his new EU led party.

 

[Seaside]

Mate nationalists and right-wingers in Europe consider the Palestinian situation a holocaust.
There is a saying among them in German roughly translated "First Dresden now Gaza".
They blame Israel as one of the big factors for the refugee streams.
And the top guy from the AFD said that Germany shouldn't support Israel and another high ranking guy said there shouldn't be any holocaust memorials in Germany.
That is not just in Germany. Anti Israel stands are very popular all over Europe in nationalist and right-wing circles.

You live in a fantasy world if you think there is some kind of globally right-wing movement. They are all completely different the only thing they have in common is an anti-immigrant stand.
France and German far right wing are socialists for example. And the one in Italy has almost Green Party policies.

A pro-Israel stand is an American thing but not a European thing.

There is a global right wing loose movement that wants see each other succeed. Italy sucking Trump dick and going to align with Visegrad group. Then rich Russians funding right wingers in europe. Yeah Le Pen and her type are not Israel lovers but that is 1 country. Orban and Visegrad is different. Then look at the nationalists in brazil and argentina.

 

[abiG]

Then look at the nationalists in brazil and argentina.

Recently, Colombia became the last country in South America and the 137th member of the United Nations to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state...
https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-recognize-palestine-colombia-becomes-137-un-member-1068318

South America is now 100% united behind Palestine!

Guess you missed it.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Catalonians be like .........

Basques too



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_National_Liberation_Movement

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

Pretty sure hes referring to Palestine as a nation state, not as a district of Syria as you're referencing with Herodotus and later Aristotle. Surely you understand the important distinction

 

[MadSquabbles500]

JIDF please go home. The Palestinians were living on that land for generations, they have a far stronger claim then a bunch of European colonialists who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th century.

The ones who have no claim are the Zionists. Just because a kingdom named Israel existed there three thousands years ago doesn't entitled them to ethnically cleanse a people who have lived there for centuries. If that's a legitimate basis for a modern state then lets create a state for the Assyrians and the Babylonians and the Scythians and the Huns and so on.

Even those israelites technically were invaders too sort of. See they had left, and gone to Egypt. Then they left Egypt, and came back, but by then, other people living there. Well at least according to the Abrahamic Holy Books.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Wtf are you even talking about? The modern state of Israel is the result of the Zionist movement, you cannot separate the two. Do you even know what Zionism is?

I really don't care how ancient Israel is, no one is arguing for any of the contemporaries of the ancient Kingdom of Israel get their own modern state. Assyrians actually lived in the region continuously unlike the Zionists and were contemporaries of the Kingdom of Israel, should they also get their own state? Should native tribes who lived on the land you now live on get their own state? Should the Moors get their own state in the province of Cordoba in Spain because they were expelled 700 years ago?

Israel is a reality, there's no changing that now and everyone needs to accept that most of all the Palestinians. But it should've never come into existence as far as I'm concerned.

Israel belongs as a nation state without the help of the Zionists. I can dislike Zionism and support Israel becoming a nation and wanting Jerusalem returned etc. Get over your hangups

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Fair enough. If Israel is stronger they can keep holding all the cards.
I am personally of the opinion that Israel is there now. And that's not going to change so that is the basis everyone has to accept.
I just have an issue with trying to justify it from a historical point of view. That land didn't belong to the Jews when they took it by force.

You mean after every nation around them got their shit kicked in for starting shit? Yeah when you lose a war, sometimes you lose a little land.

Unless you're referring to something else?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

This basically for me. The creation of the state of Israel was done through a historical injustice and that has to be recognized. But to entirely undo it would require another historical injustice.

I think all the settlements in the occupied territories should be disbanded though, or at least integrated into the state of Palestine should there ever be one.

What's the case for a state of Palestine? Has there ever been a nation state known as Palestine?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Even those israelites technically were invaders too sort of. See they had left, and gone to Egypt. Then they left Egypt, and came back, but by then, other people living there. Well at least according to the Abrahamic Holy Books.

Oh they were definitely invaders. Badass ones at that

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Oh they were definitely invaders. Badass ones at that

But after David and Goliath though, they literally had string of defeat after defeat.

 

[Seaside]

Recently, Colombia became the last country in South America and the 137th member of the United Nations to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state...
https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-recognize-palestine-colombia-becomes-137-un-member-1068318

South America is now 100% united behind Palestine!

Guess you missed it.

They also recognize Israel. And in my country nobody cares. The president just wanted to appease lextists. Foook palestine it doesnt exist. oh and jews are awesome

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Interesting, @oleDirtyBast4rd would not answer these two simple questions. Maybe you would like a shot.

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

Are you stupid or something? I acknowledged that the term Palestine was used. It doesnt seem to mean what you think it means tho. As I said Palestine was never a nation state in history.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

But after David and Goliath though, they literally had string of defeat after defeat.

True. It was their God that made them badass. When they fell away, they were given over to their enemies time and again.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Israel belongs as a nation state without the help of the Zionists. I can dislike Zionism and support Israel becoming a nation and wanting Jerusalem returned etc. Get over your hangups

The entire movement for the creation of a homeland for the Jews is known as Zionism, that is what you don't seem to understand. They are one and the same. You can't dislike Zionism, the movement for the creation of a homeland for the Jews, but support their goal. Its nonsensical.

What's the case for a state of Palestine?

The existence of the Palestinian people. The territory was controlled by the Ottomans but do you really think the people living on the land thought of themselves as Ottomans? Do you think they spoke the Palestinian dialect of Arabic or Ottoman Turkish?

The official reason for the creation of the Mandate of Palestine was to facilitate the eventual self-determination of the people living there. Unfortunately the British horribly mismanaged the mandate and that sowed the seeds of the perpetual conflict to this day, only one among many lies peddled by the European colonialists that have reverberations in the region to this day.

Has there ever been a nation state known as Palestine?

Doesn't matter if there's never been a nation-state there. Nation-states are a relatively recent phenomenon and in the vast majority of cases they are unprecedented but emerged from the cultural milieu of a preexisting people. The Kingdom of Israel was itself not a nation-state so the same applies to Israel. There existed a Palestinian people who were promised a nation-state by the British, therefore there should be a Palestine.

But since you're so preoccupied with the idea of a state there was in fact a quasi-autonomous state in the region under the control of Zahir al Umar who even attempted a revolt with the support of the Russian Empire and the ruler of Egypt, Ali Bey al Kabir, thus briefly creating an independent state in historic Palestine. The Zaydani clan from which he hailed still lives in Palestine today.