Old school punk culture...

[Mr. Shickadance]

The point of punk always was anti mainstream, anti establishment. Saying whatever you wanted and not giving a fuck. Non conformity to pressure to fall in line with majority morality.

These idiots claiming mosh pits are sexist and ableist because they prevent more fragile girls and disabled people from being front and center at shows, demanding pits be moved to the back corners are fucking retards

Listen to crass and tell me they aren’t punk and that they aren’t woke.

 

[Osculater]

Punk culture is kinda mainstream now.
To the point where the dumb woke new punk folks criticize old school punk as bad because of their freedom of speech and saying anything they wanted.

Chick from paramour coming out 15 years later and calling Fat Mike sexist was comedy to me.

The fact that folks want political correctness in punk now is peak humor

Paramour is as Punk as Avril Lavigne

 

[Pliny Pete]

Could've sworn old school punk was from the 70's. 90's is like decade 3 of punk.

30 years ago is old school, bro

 

[Your Salad]

Listen to crass and tell me they aren’t punk and that they aren’t woke.

Crass is woke af. many people including me liked the sound and still thought the message was over the top.
They were punk as fuck.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Could've sworn old school punk was from the 70's. 90's is like decade 3 of punk.

I’d say 70’s is Proto , 80’s is height of punk and it’s creativity , early 90’s is. Continuation and then emo and hardcore became the more mainstream of punk and the underground. There will always be elements of the original but like alll music it changes and grows. It’s like how the world happens . Adapt or die

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Crass is woke af many people including me liked the sound and still thought the message was over the top.
They were punk as fuck.

I like the message and the music , but I would never care if anyone in the punk scene thought the same

 

[Halifax]

Listen to crass and tell me they aren’t punk and that they aren’t woke.

Crass are very punk, and were very freedom of speech.

And they raised a shitfit in their early years about the organized left wingers turning punk into an "us vs them" bullshit with Rock against racism, and literally said it's against what punk was. Doing your own thing and freedom.

There is a direct quote from the crass members shitting on Rock against racism and their hollow bullshit, saying "the politicos turned it into either you support them, or you are a nazi. It's bullshit and causes divided youth and mindless violence"

 

[Halifax]

Paramour is as Punk as Avril Lavigne

Exactly

 

[Ogata]

So, they looked gay AF ?

I mean that is an opinion but more like this:

Are you referring to straight-edge, or some other sub-sub culture. Hey, if they'd been into jiu-jitsu, they'd have REALLY been a subculture (rimshot!)/



I lived in West Campus from about 04-07, then again in 16. Back in the early 2000s we just called them Drag Rats lmao.

Steamboat was a little before our time, but you might have been able to catch a couple shows there. I think when that place closed, the central spot for punks kind of went away. There are definitely some hangs up on North Loop still. The punks are aging out, but they still congregate at Work Horse. Best macaroni in town lol. They always throw it in the broiler for a few minutes so it gets a nice crust-- maybe it's an homage to the crust punks.

I am not sure if they were straight edge but some of them were in an insanely good shape. Similar to Tyler Durden or a ripped boxer or martial artist in great shape. GSP talked about admiring martial arts photos of ripped dudes who had decent muscle mass and were flexible and were flexible.


Keep in mind that I have no idea what these guys were like. Some of them were eating pizza and fast food but lot of them were pretty active. Running around, wrestling around and just being rowdy and having a great time. They seemed much older than teenagers and assuming if my mental imagery is not faulty, I recollect them to be in their mid-20s.

I have no idea whatever happened to them. This was either 1994 or 1995.

Pains me that you saw operation ivy and didn't realize just how amazing that was/is and I'd kill to have that memory.

Only band I've never seen that I really wish I had and pains me more daily knowing that's how it's likely always going to be.





I don't recall punks in the 90s being into physical fitness but there were some skins and some hardcore crues that were abaolute units and not to be messed with at all unless you wanted to have a really rough not. It seems like the scene just died over night in the early 2000s.


It's not the same scene it was when I was younger. Only rules were don't be an actual nazi and if someone hits the floor pick em up but at some point between then and now people's views homogenized and if you aren't the most radical of leftists you will be getting in a lot of arguments between sets with folks if you choose to talk to anyone. I'm from Detroit and not London though and maybe shit was different there.

I always liked ska and punk ska better.

I always wondered if the guys I use to see were maybe a boxing or martial arts group who hung out after training. I mean boxing was huge in UK during that time because I remember everybody was going CRAZY for Naseem Hamed.

Whoa.. so you met Dan Hardy?

The dudes I remembered were way better shape. Most of them were built like Brandon Thatch:

Could've sworn old school punk was from the 70's. 90's is like decade 3 of punk.

It was for sure the beginning but 90s had a more neo or Cyberpunk like style to them.




Some of them had similar to Steve Fox in tekken 4 which is when he made his debut in 2001:

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Crass are very punk, and were very freedom of speech.

And they raised a shitfit in their early years about the organized left wingers turning punk into an "us vs them" bullshit with Rock against racism, and literally said it's against what punk was. Doing your own thing and freedom.

There is a direct quote from the crass members shitting on Rock against racism and their hollow bullshit, saying "the politicos turned it into either you support them, or you are a nazi. It's bullshit and causes divided youth and mindless violence"

They were shitting on the clash because to them they were sell outs who were on labels that were just big money makers . Read Steve ignorants book and you’d see different . They’d agree more with “woke” ideologies than anything associated with the other side, they’d still be critical because they are always critical but they would not be anti woke . And if you believe that you missed the point. If you disagree Steve ignorant still yours now and is very nice to fans and you could ask him.

 

[Halifax]

They were shitting on the clash because to them they were sell outs who were on labels that were just big money makers . Read Steve ignorants book and you’d see different . They’d agree more with “woke” ideologies than anything associated with the other side, they’d still be critical because they are always critical but they would not be anti woke . And if you believe that you missed the point. If you disagree Steve ignorant still yours now and is very nice to fans and you could ask him.

No, In their statement they were shitting on political left leaning folks who tried to take over the punk movement, and while they agreed with most principals of the more progressive ideas, they strongly encouraged not forcing others to conform or start calling them nazis for not conforming to others beliefs and reacting to it with violence.

The exact statement they released as a band was:

At its start, punk was a cry for anarchy and freedom, it was individuals doing their own thing, then the organised left moved in with RAR and once had what been once OUR playground became THEIR battlefield, the troops wore gaily coloured stars and anyone else retreated into confusion and sometimes anger.
Why had THEY chosen to make punk political, yes the Pistols had spoken about anarchy, but that was not POLITICS, it was PEOPLE; who cares a fuck about Marx, Hitler, Stalin, the whole fucking lot of them? What did any of them ever do for us? All at once everything became either left or right, you had to be one side or the other…
Was n’t it supposed to be OUR music? The music of the people? Suddenly it was THEIRS again, not the big business boys again but the POLITICOS, not the capitalist overlord but the socialist one. BIG BROTHER RAR is here to sell OUR music with THEIR message. Yet for all the propaganda and badges, nothing has been achieved but a terrible division of youth and the mindless violence that goes with that. You either supported the RAR/SWP angle or you were a ‘fucking Nazi’; no wonder there is violence at gigs now

 

[Your Salad]

I like the message and the music , but I would never care if anyone in the punk scene thought the same

Of course you wouldn't care, THAT WAS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT.
It was great!
Wasn't and still not sure if women not having hairy armpits is the catalyst for greater change.
Track is so good.

 

[Halifax]

They were shitting on the clash because to them they were sell outs who were on labels that were just big money makers . Read Steve ignorants book and you’d see different . They’d agree more with “woke” ideologies than anything associated with the other side, they’d still be critical because they are always critical but they would not be anti woke . And if you believe that you missed the point. If you disagree Steve ignorant still yours now and is very nice to fans and you could ask him.

And their first statement was:

Several weeks ago RAR issued a letter to everyone in the music business demanding action against BM/NF. On the surface it might have seemed a good idea, but take a closer look and it becomes clear that RAR are just moving in for the kill. They recommend the vetting of audiences at gigs, claim the right to throw out anyone with whom they might disagree, demand the right to assert their ideas at gigs but prevent the ideas of others, they are even preparing a folio of mug shots of people they believe should be ‘dealt with’. GREAT so much for anti-fascism. (We were asked by RAR to play on a truck outside the last Rock against Communism gig, we refused to do so, if RAR feel they have the right to promote their political ideology, they have no right to prevent others from promoting theirs. Both communism and fascism have been responsible for worldwide slaughter, is one any better than the other?) POGO ON A NAZI is a blatant call to violence….

 

[Your Salad]

And their first statement was:

Several weeks ago RAR issued a letter to everyone in the music business demanding action against BM/NF. On the surface it might have seemed a good idea, but take a closer look and it becomes clear that RAR are just moving in for the kill. They recommend the vetting of audiences at gigs, claim the right to throw out anyone with whom they might disagree, demand the right to assert their ideas at gigs but prevent the ideas of others, they are even preparing a folio of mug shots of people they believe should be ‘dealt with’. GREAT so much for anti-fascism. (We were asked by RAR to play on a truck outside the last Rock against Communism gig, we refused to do so, if RAR feel they have the right to promote their political ideology, they have no right to prevent others from promoting theirs. Both communism and fascism have been responsible for worldwide slaughter, is one any better than the other?) POGO ON A NAZI is a blatant call to violence….

That seems pretty excusive.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

No, In their statement they were shitting on political left leaning folks who tried to take over the punk movement, and while they agreed with most principals of the more progressive ideas, they strongly encouraged not forcing others to conform or start calling them nazis for not conforming to others beliefs and reacting to it with violence.

The exact statement they released as a band was:

At its start, punk was a cry for anarchy and freedom, it was individuals doing their own thing, then the organised left moved in with RAR and once had what been once OUR playground became THEIR battlefield, the troops wore gaily coloured stars and anyone else retreated into confusion and sometimes anger.
Why had THEY chosen to make punk political, yes the Pistols had spoken about anarchy, but that was not POLITICS, it was PEOPLE; who cares a fuck about Marx, Hitler, Stalin, the whole fucking lot of them? What did any of them ever do for us? All at once everything became either left or right, you had to be one side or the other…
Was n’t it supposed to be OUR music? The music of the people? Suddenly it was THEIRS again, not the big business boys again but the POLITICOS, not the capitalist overlord but the socialist one. BIG BROTHER RAR is here to sell OUR music with THEIR message. Yet for all the propaganda and badges, nothing has been achieved but a terrible division of youth and the mindless violence that goes with that. You either supported the RAR/SWP angle or you were a ‘fucking Nazi’; no wonder there is violence at gigs now

That’s real cool but they weren’t anti-something just to be anti it, they wouldn’t be racist because the world was anti- racist, they hated the commercialization of things because it gave things less meaning, once again your missing the point like most boomer punks do.
And that was and is my whole point.

 

[Halifax]

That’s real cool but they weren’t anti-something just to be anti it, they wouldn’t be racist because the world was anti- racist, they hated the commercialization of things because it gave things less meaning, once again your missing the point like most boomer punks do.
And that was and is my whole point.

Nah. I grew up with and understand what it was all about.

The problem with you kiddos is you look at the past with modern lenses.

Crass hated anyone trying to force political sides in punk. They believed in most of the same things as rock against racism, yet still publicly opposed them specifically because RAR was trying to galvanize crowds into censorship of opposing viewpoints. Any opposing viewpoints, no matter how rational, by calling them nazis . Crass publicly stated that was against the spirit of punk and freedom and that nobody should fear mob rule and feel the need to walk on eggshells or be labeled nazis and punished and ostracized.

Direct quotes. Right from the band. Like it or not

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Nah. I grew up with and understand what it was all about.

The problem with you kiddos is you look at the past with modern lenses.

Crass hated anyone trying to force political sides in punk. They believed in most of the same things as rock against racism, yet still publicly opposed them specifically because RAR was trying to galvanize crowds into censorship of opposing viewpoints. Any opposing viewpoints, no matter how rational, by calling them nazis . Crass publicly stated that was against the spirit of punk and freedom and that nobody should fear mob rule and feel the need to walk on eggshells or be labeled nazis and punished and ostracized.

Direct quotes. Right from the band. Like it or not

I could care less what you grew up with.

They hated people putting political sides in punk? But yet put political sides in punk.
I’ll agree they didn’t like censorship but still didn’t just blindly believe in anti establishment for anti-establishments sake.
Either way crass didn’t create punk and don’t get to decide where it goes and that is the beauty of punk it is kind of undefinable. It’s the rebellion that needs to exist at the moment. But it has and never will be anti woke because woke-is Is very similar no one can define it but we know what it is and when it’s needed.
You are trying to make conformity out of non-conformity and claim you are doing the opposite. Trying to say what the old wave did was real while the new wave is wrong and fake. You missed the point and still can’t think critically enough to appreciate the rebellion of the time and the continuing of it now, because you’ve aged out.

 

[Halifax]

I could care less what you grew up with.

They hated people putting political sides I punk? But yet put political sides in punk.
I’ll agree they didn’t like censorship but still didn’t just blindly believe in anti establishment for anti-establishments sake.
Either way crass didn’t create punk and don’t get to decide where it goes and that is the beauty of punk it is kind of undefinable. It’s the rebellion that needs to exist at the moment. But it has and never will be anti woke because woke-is Is very similar no one can define it but we know what it is and when it’s needed.
You are trying to make conformity out of non-conformity and claim you are doing the opposite. Trying to say what the old wave did was real while the new wave is wrong and fake. You missed the point and still can’t think critically enough to appreciate the rebellion of the time and the continuing of it now, because you’ve aged out.

I love how you are changing to "crass didn’t create punk and doesn't get to decide" when you are the one who brought them up.

if you went to their show and spouted the old modern "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" to audience members that had opposing ideologies than the bands thinking you were siding with the band, the band would tell you to fuck off and call you sugar coated political poison.

Punk, absent freedom of speech and defending to the death others freedom of speech, is punk without the heart and ideas that created it and you seem to think your modern take on it is the evolution. But it's not. It's the corpse of punk as it's lost its roots and not the same genre anymore.

 

[squeezewax]

Punk? Punk to me is punk rock, and that was in the late seventies in England.[with the Pistols.]

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

I love how you are changing to "crass didn’t create punk and doesn't get to decide" when you are the one who brought them up.

if you went to their show and spouted the old modern "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" to audience members that had opposing ideologies than the bands thinking you were siding with the band, the band would tell you to fuck off and call you sugar coated political poison.

Punk, absent freedom of speech and defending to the death others freedom of speech, is punk without the heart and ideas that created it and you seem to think your modern take on it is the evolution. But it's not. It's the corpse of punk as it's lost its roots and not the same genre anymore.

I brought them up because morons like you bring up how punk isn’t woke.
I never was against freedom of speech and never said anything of the sort , the exchange of ideas is a beautiful thing.
I have been to a Steve ignorant show I doubt you ever went to a crass show. You probably have not .
once again freedom of speech is true but you’re an idiot to think it’s without consequences and you’re a pussy to think so.
Even jello challenges punks wearing swatikas an he did rightly so. You just want punk to conform to your worn ideological stance. Where I’m ok with it evolving because life is change and learning is progress. Which is what bands like crass , subhumans, and Dead Kennedys knew. There are other aspects of punk that are undeniable too, the line pushers, the gg’s and such and that is fine, but it’s lower level and less though provoking and basically just made for young teenagers . If that’s all you want that’s fine. But to say they would care about gays, trans, or any other woke concept . You are wrong , like you said it’s a freedom of ideas and as long as it doesn’t hurt other people who cares.