Media Best angle - definitive proof.

[tipofmitt]

I have been knocked out, but never choked out. Would you rather be choked for 2-5 more seconds... or hit 2-5 more times?

 

[TriangleMonkey]

The “limp” is for sure super questionable, also Herb having a grappling background, should have know that Robbie has limited movement from that position and most likely let go of Ben as he knew he just needs to see where Bens going with the hold.

Now If Ben was clean umder the chin, then that was definitely a Bulldog choke, but it wasnt, it was a crank more than anything so Herb should have let him tap from neck crank, or wait till something more convincing go limp like at the knees.

 

[5thDimensionMMA]

He gave a thumbs up. He was fine.What a bullshit stoppage.

 

[Judoka1532]

Did you like just ignore the gif/video in the OP? Robbie does exactly what you’re asking for.



Herb did half his job then had a brain fart - He checks Robbie’s hand which Robbie responds to by moving his hand and giving a thumbs up, then Herb stops the fight... What was the point of checking the hand?

Herb saw what we ALL saw but an arm appearing to go limp isn’t definitive and so he took the next common step in determining Robbie’s state by lifting Robbie’s hand. Robbie responded by doing exactly what you’re supposed to do and yet Herb stopped it anyways.

No I didn't ignore anything. I saw (in the full video) lawler's arm go limp from on askrens shoulder followed by herb grabbing his hand and bringing up, only to let go and robbies hand briefly go up (which idk if herb saw) and then immediately go back to the mat. It was very fast too. I don't think lawler was out all the way, but he did fade for a little bit. I'm not saying that this was 100% right, i'm more just defending herb.

My point was, this would all be avoidable if robbie would have done a little more to make it obvious he wasn't out. But when you're slipping who's to say that's easy to do...Herb wouldn't have stopped it if he didn't think the same thing. We see probably like 400+ ufc fights a year. At times, stuff like this will happen.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

1- Before Herb drops to his knees, Robbie is moving the “limp” arm. How can his arm be limp yet moving at the same time?

2- When Herb picks his arm up, the arm does not drop back to the ground but rather it remains elevated and Robbie even gives a thumbs-up before returning his hand to the canvas.

3- Robbie is immediately alert, aware, composed and justifiably pissed off AF after Herb intervenes.

...

I am totally unbiased in this.

You will find quotes from me speculating that Askren is a contender for WW GOAT and you will also find quotes from me stating my love and appreciation for Robbie - The type of man who makes this the greatest show in the world.

You will not find quotes from me predicting the result of this fight or claiming one superior over the other.

What’s right is right and Robbie doesn’t deserve to have an L on his record for this. IMO this is one of the very few instances where the result should actually be overturned to a No-Contest.

***

Beautiful post..i agree and have been repeating this over and over again non stop...i will be saving this link and posting as my response to this situation from now on

 

[Wise1]

... I saw (in the full video) lawler's arm go limp from on askrens shoulder followed by herb grabbing his hand and bringing up, only to let go and robbies hand briefly go up (which idk if herb saw) and then immediately go back to the mat. It was very fast too. I don't think lawler was out all the way...

If that’s how you sum up what you see in that video then I don’t even know what to say.

 

[Judoka1532]

If that’s how you sum up what you see in that video then I don’t even know what to say.

As mentioned previously, there was more that happened BEFORE that this clip doesn't show (lawlers arm appearing to go completely limp). Maybe thats why you don't understand? But for this video clip alone, please explain where i'm wrong...i'm waiting.

Addition: See the clip below

 

[mooseman17]

Restart the fight with Askren having Robbie in a full on bulldog choke with two mins left on the clock.

 

[El Fernas]

What i dont like is that he went and checked the hand only to ignore that Robbie even gave him thumbs up, why check the hand and not care for it??

 

[ejazahmednit]

herbal dean being all herbed up, calls like this should not count as a win, a shitty mistake by the ref can cost a fighter so much.
Win bonus, ranking, chance to fight for the title, performance bonus. They should allow a replay for situations like this. So pissed off

 

[kflo]

Personally, there's NO one to blame but Lawler himself. Who the fuck just drops there arm like that whilst in a sub??? Makes no sense, clearly he was drained of something, even if it was for just a moment. So herb reacted on a sign, and to be fair, herb should have waited a bit, not jump in straight away.

Also, nice of TS to cut out the arm going limp bit, nice fair assessment for the unbiased eyes to see.

Herb checked his fuckin arm.. Robbie responded. Therefore herb fucked up..

 

[lsu480]

1- Before Herb drops to his knees, Robbie is moving the “limp” arm. How can his arm be limp yet moving at the same time?

2- When Herb picks his arm up, the arm does not drop back to the ground but rather it remains elevated and Robbie even gives a thumbs-up before returning his hand to the canvas.

3- Robbie is immediately alert, aware, composed and justifiably pissed off AF after Herb intervenes.

...

I am totally unbiased in this.

You will find quotes from me speculating that Askren is a contender for WW GOAT and you will also find quotes from me stating my love and appreciation for Robbie - The type of man who makes this the greatest show in the world.

You will not find quotes from me predicting the result of this fight or claiming one superior over the other.

What’s right is right and Robbie doesn’t deserve to have an L on his record for this. IMO this is one of the very few instances where the result should actually be overturned to a No-Contest.

***

From Herbs angle, in real time without the benefit of replay, he looked out. Herb sucks but it was the right call with the information he had.

 

[tenniswhiz]

1- Before Herb drops to his knees, Robbie is moving the “limp” arm. How can his arm be limp yet moving at the same time?

2- When Herb picks his arm up, the arm does not drop back to the ground but rather it remains elevated and Robbie even gives a thumbs-up before returning his hand to the canvas.

3- Robbie is immediately alert, aware, composed and justifiably pissed off AF after Herb intervenes.

...

I am totally unbiased in this.

You will find quotes from me speculating that Askren is a contender for WW GOAT and you will also find quotes from me stating my love and appreciation for Robbie - The type of man who makes this the greatest show in the world.

You will not find quotes from me predicting the result of this fight or claiming one superior over the other.

What’s right is right and Robbie doesn’t deserve to have an L on his record for this. IMO this is one of the very few instances where the result should actually be overturned to a No-Contest.

***

His arm isn’t even limp...

 

[kflo]

If turned into a NC, then it would be be even more unfair to askren.

Here's the deal, if robbie was out and herb let it go on...what then would we say? Bc the truth of the matter is everybody thought he was out when his arm went falling limp (which isn't in this clip you provided). We all were screaming he's out, the announcers even said it on the replay. His arm literally fell limp and he was not moving. My question is WHY ROBBIE WOULD YOU NOT MOVE OR DO SOMETHING. Give a thumbs up (which is the standard sign people give) or something man.

If you are in Herb's position, what else do you have to go off of. My honest opinion is robbie was in an out of consciousness and was about to go out anyways. I know that's not really a solid arguing point, but i'm just saying what I think I saw.

You’re ignoring that herb actually did what he should. Check the arm. And Robbie did what he needed to. He showed he wan’t conscious. The only reason herb had to stop the fight was if he was unconscious when he checked and he wasn’t. Herb choked.

 

[Wise1]

As mentioned previously, there was more that happened BEFORE that this clip doesn't show (lawlers arm appearing to go completely limp). Maybe thats why you don't understand? But for this video clip alone, please explain where i'm wrong...i'm waiting.

Addition: See the clip below

Sigh

So you think I’m just ignoring the view that we ALL saw of Lawler’s arm appearing to go limp?

Just watch the video dude:

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Restart the fight with Askren having Robbie in a full on bulldog choke with two mins left on the clock.

You mean start him in a bulldog choke with his forearm on Robbies throat and not just across the jawline for a neck crank? Like a neck crank delivers pain and you can just tap for relief.....

Im fine with your scenario, but it wouldnt be a bulldog choke if he aint got neck.....

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

gotta rematch this one for sure

despite what askren says - if dana wants it - then it's happening.

 

[Wise1]

gotta rematch this one for sure

despite what askren says - if dana wants it - then it's happening.

I don’t even care if they do the rematch or not but that L on Lawler’s record needs to be changed to a No Contest.

 

[Wise1]

BUMP

... in the name of justice for Lawler.

 

[DarkneT]

Yeah

Herb shit the bed


But fuck it, it’s so much funnier having Askren win the toughest fight in the division for him