Dealing with violent Thugs/Meatheads in BJJ gyms

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Do you miss manlove Thursday?

I never participated in those activities. lol

 

[D Train]

London is not the USA and the right to own a gun to engage in public shootings isn't protected over there.

Umm, engaging in public shooting isn’t a right here either. This is why it’s so hard to take anti second amendment advocates seriously.
On topic, I think the instructor handled the situation appropriately.

 

[D Train]

"The guy had issues and came in looking for a fight."

So you're agreeing to engage him on his level as the instructor did?

As far as my credibility to comment I think I have some because I have been responsible for the lives of those under my charge. I am thinking of the risk with them in mind.

After explaining to the guy our program I would invite him to participate in our program. We would not try to accommodate his ambitions and react to him.

Either you can do as we are doing or you can leave. Otherwise we have situations where we enter the unexpected, as was shown here. They reacted to him instead of getting him involved with what they were doing.

I appreciate your mindset toward deescalation, but you seem like a guy who has probably had to use force so you know sometimes situations develop very quickly and require a pretty drastic solution.

 

[yetanother]

Umm, engaging in public shooting isn’t a right here either. This is why it’s so hard to take anti second amendment advocates seriously.

I'm not trying to change things in the USA (taking guns of away doesn't really doable), just poking fun at the silly from outside of the USA custom of allowing batshit insane people to buy guns (which is unluckily starting to happen where I live so I wouldn't be surprised if mass shooting start to happen).

 

[CFGroup]

I'll be the one to say it. This may ruffle some feathers but if you read without emotion you may find some truth, and can relate:

Honestly sometimes BJJ gyms can be egotistical as hell, so I wonder what else might have been going on. They also size up new people pretty hard. Gyms vary but the competitive ones I have seen do this.

Also, that fake friendship stuff a lot of them throw at you can be annoying. They always ask with a smile "have you trained before?" Then you tell them no, or just messed around with some guys. They'll try to legit dismantle you (the lower belts) like you're their final affirmation or something that the style works.

Coming in I already had wrestled and dabbled in Judo so I was not an easy go, plus I was in much better shape and AFTER they learned their basic techniques couldn't do me in it's almost like I became one of the boys.

Not everyone gets this. I've seen some rude stuff done to guys who weren't in the clique so to speak.

Personally, if I wanted to show someone that something works I would do it in a private setting just so I wouldn't risk bruising their ego in front of that many people.

I've been handled by the gym owner one on one and we went to a whole different room, only his second in charge brown belt witnessed it. I've also handled people in a setting away from their peers. People don't like to be embarrassed and there are people who will try to make a name off of someone else. Of course, I wasn't there but I'm recalling what I've seen.

Same kinda thing happened to me at a BJJ school when I was back to training Judo all the time as well as home training 3 hours a day, I came in with my old WB the first class and worked with a buddy of mine who'd started training there so there was no issue of trashing the schools students in standup. Rich and I did do a lot of breakfalling in the mutilated Koshi drills so I don't know maybe that ticked them off.
After class in rolling all these upper level belts basically lined up to roll and trash me including the instructor at the end. It was that "hey, I'd be really happy to roll with you" kinda fake nice guy, but as soon as I agreed they got all tense and aggressive and trying to slam over power me. On the ground I'm eventually toast, but if you start from standing, well you gotta get me to the ground and BJJ has nothing on Judo for that. Eventually they'd kinda fall to the ground and most of the time I'd land on top and just kinda pin them till they could figure out how to sub me cause my Ne Waza offense was non existent. Even the owner of the gym eventually I kinda let him "take me down", cause it got really tense when I got good grips on him and started snapping him down and fishing around for his legs. If course hi subed me with ease on the ground, but he sure worked to get me there.
The classes I took after that it was like I didn't exist, all the other students would pair off and they'd leave me with the scrub. Funny thing is I liked to drill, had been doing it methodically for years, so I was happy(kind of) to break the technique down and really absorb it. I guess it's similar in my old Dojo, you kinda pretend you don't see the new student trying to catch your attention to train and focus in on your crew. It did help my Ne Waza, but also make me give the talented new scrubs at Judo more attention and break stuff down to drill good Ukemi habits into them for the future so I can trash them safely....and trash me cause I loved breakfalling.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Same kinda thing happened to me at a BJJ school when I was back to training Judo all the time as well as home training 3 hours a day, I came in with my old WB the first class and worked with a buddy of mine who'd started training there so there was no issue of trashing the schools students in standup. Rich and I did do a lot of breakfalling in the mutilated Koshi drills so I don't know maybe that ticked them off.
After class in rolling all these upper level belts basically lined up to roll and trash me including the instructor at the end. It was that "hey, I'd be really happy to roll with you" kinda fake nice guy, but as soon as I agreed they got all tense and aggressive and trying to slam over power me. On the ground I'm eventually toast, but if you start from standing, well you gotta get me to the ground and BJJ has nothing on Judo for that. Eventually they'd kinda fall to the ground and most of the time I'd land on top and just kinda pin them till they could figure out how to sub me cause my Ne Waza offense was non existent. Even the owner of the gym eventually I kinda let him "take me down", cause it got really tense when I got good grips on him and started snapping him down and fishing around for his legs. If course hi subed me with ease on the ground, but he sure worked to get me there.
The classes I took after that it was like I didn't exist, all the other students would pair off and they'd leave me with the scrub. Funny thing is I liked to drill, had been doing it methodically for years, so I was happy(kind of) to break the technique down and really absorb it. I guess it's similar in my old Dojo, you kinda pretend you don't see the new student trying to catch your attention to train and focus in on your crew. It did help my Ne Waza, but also make me give the talented new scrubs at Judo more attention and break stuff down to drill good Ukemi habits into them for the future so I can trash them safely....and trash me cause I loved breakfalling.

Lol wow that was an awesome story. Have you ever used your pins to try to submit? I used a kesa gatame and tapped a BJJ guy with a neck crank. I had a good spread for my leg base so he wasn't too much going anywhere. The neck ended up in hyperflexion without me having to give up the pin and erecting my back, more so pulling him towards me than pulling myself away.

I kept sinking my body down atop of him while doing this, they attempted to coach him out of it but he tapped. When he stood up after the round he coughed, told me he couldn't breath, and he felt the compression was getting worst in his ribs.

This was all in practice, but I'm aware of the strength in the Judo pins. If nothing else I've seen guys use them to take the air from their opponents. You being an active Judoka will have more readily available knowledge on the subject than me. I remember we use to work clock drills to get the pins right. Drilling them over and over, leaving no space between us and uke. I liked the carry over I noticed from scholastic wrestling in terms of them both having a strong emphasis on the pin. I think pins are great for establishing position as well. Food for thought I guess.

 

[NewS]

I hold the choke an extra second or two to make them realize it’s life or death

What if the thug/metalhead is better than you?

 

[Pierced7681]

What if the thug/metalhead is better than you?

Never happened. One time a guy punched me after I tapped him out so we went outside and settled it in the streets.

 

[D Train]

I'm not trying to change things in the USA (taking guns of away doesn't really doable), just poking fun at the silly from outside of the USA custom of allowing batshit insane people to buy guns (which is unluckily starting to happen where I live so I wouldn't be surprised if mass shooting start to happen).

There are actually several restrictions on who is allowed to own firearms: minors, felons, individuals who have been admitted for psychiatric treatment, non US residents are not allowed to own firearms. There is also a lengthy background check to pass. Do some people slip through, yes, of course. But acting like guns are handed out at parties is just ridiculously off base.

 

[yetanother]

There are actually several restrictions on who is allowed to own firearms: minors, felons, individuals who have been admitted for psychiatric treatment, non US residents are not allowed to own firearms. There is also a lengthy background check to pass. Do some people slip through, yes, of course. But acting like guns are handed out at parties is just ridiculously off base.

Sure there are some very basic restrictions but you have people like Elliot Rodger legally buying guns.
In Europe I wouldn't assume some some crazy guy entering a dojo would come back with a gun in USA people posting here seem to assume it's possible.

 

[D Train]

Sure there are some very basic restrictions but you have people like Elliot Rodger legally buying guns.
In Europe I wouldn't assume some some crazy guy entering a dojo would come back with a gun in USA people posting here seem to assume it's possible.

Sure, it’s possible. Any time I’m in a confrontation I just assume the person is armed. They likely aren’t, but making that assumption puts me in a better position. An armed society is a polite society. It’s not like the Wild West here.

 

[NewS]

Never happened. One time a guy punched me after I tapped him out so we went outside and settled it in the streets.

Go on...

Anyway my point stands, these kind of threads "how would you deal with assholes etc" are always filled with advice like yours "tap him out, knee on the belly, destroy him with the pressure..." and seldom take into consideration that said asshole may be better than you... glad that didn't happen to you but it does happen

 

[Pierced7681]

Go on...

Anyway my point stands, these kind of threads "how would you deal with assholes etc" are always filled with advice like yours "tap him out, knee on the belly, destroy him with the pressure..." and seldom take into consideration that said asshole may be better than you... glad that didn't happen to you but it does happen

Said asshole always seems to have zero training and is new to the sport from my experience. People with skills usually get respect beaten into them over years of training and are very humble when it comes to sparring.

 

[rmongler]

My first though was, 'What kind of unregenerated basket case would try to flip out and start smashing property in the middle of a martial arts academy surrounded by fighters? Probably some westfrican transplant.'

My second thought was, 'Thats a suspiciously somalian pater nomen.'

Then i clicked on the link and didn't need a third thought.

 

[Eisenhans]

I'm not saying that it's the instructor's fault, but I am saying that he handled the whole thing pretty poorly.

First, he challenged some stranger off the street to fight him right on the spot (and yes, from the newcomer's perspective, it would absolutely be taken as a challenge). A new guy has no idea whatsoever about positional drilling or the like; how could he? This should be obvious to a professional instructor. Then he did nothing to mitigate the inevitable testosterone rage. Seriously rookie mistakes. It's the kind of thing I'd expect from a blue belt academy owner.

Clearly this kid was unstable, but the whole situation would have been avoided if your instructor had any skill in handling questions and objections from a prospective new student.

Didn't know Junior Ogunsola was posting here.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

uggh,

I'm out becasue I rolled with visting purple belt (i'm purple as well but an older guy) and my rotor cuff/shoulder got fucked up from his over zealous rolling (I should have declined as I was done training and don't usually roll with people I don't know).

So to answer your question -- as an older guy if I end up rolling with a meathead (I'll usually avoid) I just let them do their thing and play defence.

 

[miscend]

My first though was, 'What kind of unregenerated basket case would try to flip out and start smashing property in the middle of a martial arts academy surrounded by fighters? Probably some westfrican transplant.'

My second thought was, 'Thats a suspiciously somalian pater nomen.'

Then i clicked on the link and didn't need a third thought.

There is no need for the racism here

 

[rmongler]

There is no need for the racism here

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.

 

[roventu]

Never happened. One time a guy punched me after I tapped him out so we went outside and settled it in the streets.

Lol wtf. you're joking right?

 

[Pierced7681]

Lol wtf. you're joking right?

Nope, we went outside in the alley he swung at me I ducked and then grabbed him in a standing guillotine and held him in the choke until he gave up. He called me a few names after I let go and he left and never came back.

Pretty tame story all told. Dude was an idiot.