Far east - why we haven't fighters from there?

[DorianGray]

In China, Japan, Korea Thailand martial arts are very popular. Karate, aikido, judo teakwondo etc.

In my opinion Asia is a center of martial arts.

Why we have only few good fighters in the UFC? White and black guys are better in fighting or something like that? In west we have better fighting style like boxing, wrestling etc?

why you talk like this if you from west?

 

[Yodsanan]

Just off the top of my head, I would guess it has to do with how their culture values the martial arts. They are more idealists than pragmatists on the whole when it comes to fighting. Most martial arts came from the east so they are more married to the art aspect and maintaining its purity as a holistic philosophy and not as merely a way to kick ass. Those of this persuasion probably think MMA is anathema.

Not true, it's just not popular. Japanese are greatly supportive of boxing and K1. 2 Million people watched Takeru capture his third K1 title a month ago.

 

[JustBleed69]

In China, Japan, Korea Thailand martial arts are very popular. Karate, aikido, judo teakwondo etc.

In my opinion Asia is a center of martial arts.

Why we have only few good fighters in the UFC? White and black guys are better in fighting or something like that? In west we have better fighting style like boxing, wrestling etc?

Most martial arts that are still heavily practiced in Asia are not very practical and are better off placed in movies.

 

[WildWestWhoopAss]

Why fight in a fucking shit show like ufc when they can compete in boxing?

 

[Thunderchild]

Too bad you're just missing the part where Eastern Europeans dominate wrestling at the international level.

Not really. U.S. won Freestyle and Russia won Greco at worlds last year.

Also look at the all time medal count for Olympic Wrestling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_Summer_Olympics

 

[superpunch]

Most of the Asian martial arts are for real combat of their time periods. Using swords, or throws and submissions based around wearing armor -- not MMA competition, etc.

None of is it is really for hand to hand sports. The stuff that is is already used in MMA.

 

[Thunderchild]

Lol at the implication that wrestling isn't a thing in Japan. Japan ranks 11th in world population, yet #3 all time in Olympic wrestling medals.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_freestyle_wrestling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_Greco-Roman_wrestling

That's so cute how confident you are in your mic drop moment. However, my point was that "Collegiate" wrestling is the best training grounds for MMA.... & you are presenting me with Greco & Freestyle competitions.

I'm going to refrain from sarcasm here so that I can explain this without the backdrop of our pissing competition.

On The Real:

The difference between Greco, Freestyle, & Collegiate wrestling is the amount of time that is spent on the mat. I'm sure everyone is aware that Greco is the most limiting of the styles, not even allowing use of the legs n stuff... so I won't get into that here... however not a lot of people know what the difference between Freestyle & Collegiate is. It is huge as it relates to how it translates to MMA.

In Freestyle wrestling, you have about 10 - 15 seconds once it hits the mat to get a pin or you are stood up.

In Collegiate, you are given the amount of time left in the round to be on the mat to get a pin. You are also penalized with your opponent getting a point if you stall.

Now think about the dynamic we have here as it relates to MMA. Freestyle pretty much allows you to stall until the ref saves you. Collegiate forces you to work from the top to keep the guy down, & it forces the bottom guy to work in order to get out. There is clearly no comparison in which one translates to MMA better.

So this is the no nonsense reasoning why I came into this thread with the point of view that Collegiate wrestling is the superior wrestling system to translate into MMA.

It could be argued that Freestyle & Greco specialize in takedowns... in which you would be correct... & those things are certainly useful in MMA... but Collegiate also has takedowns, Plus the advantage of those scrambles on the mat that far out weigh the disadvantages of being specialized in throws alone.

Staying on top to keep their opponent under them is what these MMA collegiate wrestling champions & top contenders are using to control their opponents. Their uncanny ability to get up from the bottom has its roots in their collegiate wrestling background as well.

 

[Yodsanan]

Most of the Asian martial arts are for real combat of their time periods. Using swords, or throws and submissions based around wearing armor -- not MMA competition, etc.

None of is it is really for hand to hand sports. The stuff that is is already used in MMA.

Yes boxing, kickboxing and muay thai is rarely used in the UFC.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Lol at the implication that wrestling isn't a thing in Japan. Japan ranks 11th in world population, yet #3 all time in Olympic wrestling medals.

There's a difference between Freestyle & Greco wrestling & MMA wrestling. See my post just above.

Basically Freestyle & Greco don't specialize on ground control.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/140488847/

 

[superpunch]

Yes boxing, kickboxing and muay thai is rarely used in the UFC.

Of course it's used in the UFC all the time.

I'm talking about Kung Fu arts, Jujutsu, Ninjitsu arts, etc.

A lot of these are like medieval knight martial arts. Difference is, Europe had the industrial age a long time ago and lost all their martial arts history. Asia just came out of that age recently a few hundred years behind and still has lots of theirs' somewhat intact in some way or another.

 

[Yodsanan]

Of course it's used in the UFC all the time.

I'm talking about Kung Fu arts, Jujutsu, Ninjitsu arts, etc.

Asia does great in the sports I pointed out and has an abundance of practioners. Asia is not just those martial arts you mentioned, so it's kind of a pointless remark.

 

[superpunch]

Asia does great in the sports I pointed out and has an abundance of practioners. Asia is not all those martial arts you mentioned, so it's kind of a pointless remark.

What?

 

[Quinton Overeem]

Asian fighters get fucked in the UFC. They never translate well into the western MMA world because they don't have the correct steroid dealers.

This is what I seriously believe. They also need some TRT.

 

[Yodsanan]

What?

I just realised I'm talking to superpunch. I'm just going to move on.



<{CMPALM}>

 

[Thunderchild]

There's a difference between Freestyle & Greco wrestling & MMA wrestling. See my post just above.

Basically Freestyle & Greco don't specialize on ground control.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/140488847/

I understand the difference between freestyle and folkstyle. I think the translation is more nuanced than you are suggesting, for instance locking hands while in an offensive position is not allowed in folkstyle, but it is in freestyle and certainly is helpful in MMA.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I understand the difference between freestyle and folkstyle. I think the translation is more nuanced than you are suggesting, for instance locking hands while in an offensive position is not allowed in folkstyle, but it is in freestyle and certainly is helpful in MMA.

I gotta disagree when I see these powerhouse wrestlers maintaining top position & winning fights that way. I think the difference is night & day huge.

Especially regarding ground control you gotta agree there is no comparison.

Freestyle allowing stalling till the ref saves him ain't gonna serve him in MMA. It's not going to serve the top guy much either not being in those long scrambles & shifting their weight n stuff to learn how to stay on top when all you gotta focus on it holding the guy down for 10 seconds. you know.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

There have been tons of Asian fighters in UFC, hundreds throughout the years. They just can't get very far. They can do ok against some low level guys, but once they reach a certain point higher up they just fold and wilt. There is many reasons why, can't be bothered to list it all.

 

[USA!USA!]

Asia was the center for martial arts.. and then people learned bjj and wrestling.

 

[whougonnacall]

There are no nationalities when the cage door closes. The winner is the winner.

There have been lots of oriental people who have come into the UFC, but they seem to get beat back at the higher levels. I don't think any of them have become champion. I can only think of a few that have even come close to the title picture. Zombie got a shot at Aldo. Stun Gunz last 2 losses were to american wrestlers. Yushin keeps running into trouble at the higher end. I'm not prejudice, I'm just pointing out my thoughts regarding the convo of this thread. It's just data. It is what it is. Choi came in strong & got beat out of the top 10 by 2 americans. That's not my fault. I'm just telling you what happened.

You seem to be saying that there have been oriental fighters out there who could've become a UFC champ, but they were turned away because the UFC doesn't recruit them. I don't think that's true at all. I think any stand out fighter of any nationality will be considered by the UFC.

It seems to me that the UFC recruits the best fighters... & if more of them are American, then that is a testament to America... not proof that the UFC is prejudice.

What you are not exploring is "why."

Do oriental civilizations even have a strong MMA infrastructure or are most schools still narrowed in on ancient heritage skills?

You hit on it a bit in your response & even gave America a shout out regarding teaching wrestling in school. In my opinion, this is a major contributor as to why more Americans rise to the top. I don't think you are giving enough credit to American fighters for having this base.

Also, as I pointed out in my 1st post of this thread, it's a very lucrative economy so more teachers come here in order to have more students & be able to make a better living for themselves. I think it has more to do with that kind of stuff than it does with what you're saying. There's at least a couple dozen MMA schools in the city I live in. How many are in oriental cities? or do they mostly still focus on the individual arts of their heritage?

MMA has proven many times to be superior to any one individual style. No offense to the ancient arts because they can be successfully "incorporated" into MMA, but it's just one facet of a game that they will need many components of. For example, A Kung Fu expert better damn well be able to defend a take down or know how to work a guard from the bottom because his whole Kung Fu game goes out the window when he's laying on his back. World Champion boxer James Tony fights Couture & it's over rocket quick with a take down.

Now flip the script. Take a guy like Brock Lesnar who was pretty much a one dimensional fighter based around wrestling. All he had to do was a year or so of fundamental & basic striking & he dominated in MMA. He continued to develop his striking, but it was his wrestling that allowed him to became one of only a handfull of people to gain the HW belt 3 times consecutively. Back in the day, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, & Don Frye all just came right off the wrestling mats & added a bit of striking to their game to immediately do well in MMA... and eventually became Legends. That's my point. Wrestling is one of the greatest weapons to have in an MMA fight... so do not dismiss it in this conversation. it's a huge advantage in MMA that Americans teach their kids wrestling in school. So if oriental people don't teach it to their kids in school, but Americans do... then that's more of a testament to American's than it is to prejudice of the UFC.

I wouldnt say its prejudice its just the ufc doesnt recruit much outside of u.s nor does mma have any real rankings system outside of the ufc....there is no real criteria to getting in other than geing good and hoping to get noticed ....the ufc i doubt has global talent scouts scoring the globe hence why its mostly guys in u.s gyms and org that get noticed


Im not doubting wrestling is a great style or base but the fact that most ufc fighters allowed in are american and its taught in high schools is why its such a common base
The other side of it is of course elite wrestlers have wanted to go to mma , by contrast other bases
Bjj: not taught in high schools and barely a niche a few years ago but most elite guys in that art transffering to mma have done well
Judo:hugely popular art but few high level guys going to mma ...few that have have done well too
Catch: as niche as it gets but produced absolute legends
Boxing,tkd,karate,kickboxing : various reasons keep these guys in their own sports largely but a few elite have crossed over and done just fine too
My point isnt degrading wrestling its an amazing base both greco,freestyle and folk but we really cant say its a better base than any other combat base (or the kids comming up who've only ever trained in mma camps) as we simply havent had enough crossover to see.