Media Fight day weights for UFC 298

[Jon's Drug Dealer]

I have newfound respect for Ian Garry. Homie doesn't cut any weight at all and slapped around a fighter closer to LHW with ease.

 

[Tnellie30]

The word "bully" in this context places an undeniably negative connotation on the practice and the fighter in question. Personally I would just say "Fighter X cuts a lot of weight" or "is big for the division". Still gets the point across, but without the same inherent stigma.

Imagine if I singled out one of the division's best knockout artists and instead of calling him such I called him a "power-bully". No one's going to think that I'm simply describing his punching power disparity relative to his peers, they're going to assume that I'm calling him some brute who uses his explosiveness as a crutch to catch and KO technically better dudes regardless of whether that's true. Same as if I describe a particularly durable fighter as a "chin bully".

It's dumb IMO.

Why else would someone cut 15-20 percent of their body weight for the day of weigh in, and then put it back on the next day for the fight. Because it is healthy? Because it is fun?

Anybody with a red highlight from the original post is, basically, a weight bully.

 

[nostradumbass]

I understand that, but thought he'd be bigger.

22 lbs is a lot for the little guys. Percentage wise, he and Topuria are up there with Paulo Costa. Not sure how much bigger they could bevand still make the weight.

 

[Safton]

Why else would someone cut 15-20 percent of their body weight for the day of weigh in, and then put it back on the next day for the fight. Because it is healthy? Because it is fun?

Anybody with a red highlight from the original post is, basically, a weight bully.

To gain a legal competitive advantage for a fight because they are professional fighters. The same reason they would do anything else as part of a training camp. Despite your attempt at a strawman, no one is saying that the large weight cuts happen by accident and that the weight just magically falls off of these dudes before ballooning back up. The point of contention is that they shouldn't be stigmatized for doing so in the modern institution of MMA.

Weight-cutting is a shit practice and I wish it was done away with on a large scale, but witch-hunting individual competitors for being better at it is idiotic. As a practice, it comes with legitimate well-known benefits and legitimate, well-known trade-offs. If a fighter is capable of making those trade-offs better than his/her peers and is willing to do so while still consistently making weight on the day of weigh-ins... then they're not a "bully". I see no reason to criticize them any more so than I do to criticize anyone else who leans on some given part of their natural attributes: reach, chin, cardio, power, etc. Hell, I'd argue that a lot of those are actually inherent to a given fighter and don't require a lot of the same discipline, blood, sweat, and tears that a grueling weight cut does to master and doesn't come with the same trade-offs in regards to one's long-term health or training camp management.

 

[nostradumbass]

I have newfound respect for Ian Garry. Homie doesn't cut any weight at all and slapped around a fighter closer to LHW with ease.

With ease? It was a split decision, and Neal has also lost to 4 of his last 6 opponents.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

To gain a legal competitive advantage for a fight because they are professional fighters. The same reason they would do anything else as part of a training camp. Despite your attempt at a strawman, no one is saying that the large weight cuts happen by accident and that the weight just magically falls off of these dudes before ballooning back up. The point of contention is that they shouldn't be stigmatized for doing so in the modern institution of MMA.

Weight-cutting is a shit practice and I wish it was done away with on a large scale, but witch-hunting individual competitors for being better at it is idiotic. As a practice, it comes with legitimate well-known benefits and legitimate, well-known trade-offs. If a fighter is capable of making those trade-offs better than his/her peers and is willing to do so while still consistently making weight on the day of weigh-ins... then they're not a "bully". I see no reason to criticize them any more so than I do to criticize anyone else who leans on some given part of their natural attributes: reach, chin, cardio, power, etc. Hell, I'd argue that a lot of those are actually inherent to a given fighter and don't require a lot of the same discipline, blood, sweat, and tears that a grueling weight cut does to master and doesn't come with the same trade-offs in regards to one's long-term health or training camp management.

Great answer.

I think it's embarrassing that some fans take what is basically a meme (e.g. "weight bully") seriously. It shows a real lack of intellect (or maybe just a lack of thoughtfulness).

I, personally, wish that massive weight cuts weren't allowed. But massive weight cutting is systemic. To fix it, it would take a policy change that would cover all fighters. Until then, picking on a small handful of fighters for doing something that is both allowed and systemic is beyond obtuse.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

Sherdoggers always confuse taller with bigger. Garry is a lanklet. I know one when I see one because I too am a tall skinny bastard.

You're just being modest. There's no such thing as a tall skinny Sherdogger. We're all 6'4 260, chiseled frame looking like greek gods.

 

[RonDante]

Yeah and so long as every fighter meets their contractually-obligated weight for the division in question at the time of weigh-ins, then they're kosher. Weight classes are not based on rehydrated cage weight.

meeting the weight for one hour days before the fight is the norm now, but it wasn’t what was intended. The weight classes are based on fighting weight

 

[Ladder Master]

"Weight bully" is an idiotic term….

Allowing fighters to compete 30 pounds heavier the next day is also idiotic

A “170” pound fighter stepping into the ring 30 pounds heavier is ridiculous. Nothing wrong with weight cutting but the limit should have been capped a long time ago.
Let them come in 10% over max and fine anybody else that goes over.

 

[AfroBanana]

Remember when Might Mouse was crying over Cejudo being much heavier than him during the fight and these CSAC same day weights came back and he was a few pounds heavier than Cejudo. I love these Costa and Neal are insane.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

It must be really difficult to pile weight back on as a vegan for Ian Garry.

It would be really fascinating to know how much these guys all weighed the week before weigh ins. Fight day weight is awesome but I can't help but wonder what weight these guys are cutting water from, see which guys cut the most water and how many guys emphasize packing on tons more weight.

I really don't think those extra 20lbs did Neal any favors against Gary, probably the exact opposite really.

 

[blaseblase]

Maybe I'm missing something but surely Marcos Rogerio de Lima isn't cutting to make HW, and isn't cutting an extra 4 lbs at that? I can only guess that his event weight is him fully clothed.. likely shoes and all?

He cuts weight, just not a lot. Probably just eats clean leading up to the fight and then eats whatever he wants after weighins. 4 lbs is nothing when you weight 270.

 

[Harlekin]

Ian is just so light, because his wife is carrying around his balls in her purse. HAHA

 

[Safton]

Allowing fighters to compete 30 pounds heavier the next day is also idiotic

A “170” pound fighter stepping into the ring 30 pounds heavier is ridiculous. Nothing wrong with weight cutting but the limit should have been capped a long time ago.
Let them come in 10% over max and fine anybody else that goes over.

As I have already stated -- but which people like you, the poster below, and those liking your posts seem to be missing -- I would fully support institutional changes which totally do away with weight-cutting as it currently exists in the sport. I don't care what form that takes: same-day weigh-ins, ONE-style hydration tests, modest CSAC-style changes, something in between or a combination thereof, whatever.

If your position is "modern weight-cutting has gotten out of hand and is a net negative for the sport" then we are in full agreement. My point of contention is that starting witch hunts and assigning scarlet letters for given fighters at being better at it than others is not unhelpful at best and misguided and stupid at worst.

meeting the weight for one hour days before the fight is the norm now, but it wasn’t what was intended. The weight classes are based on fighting weight

Not in the modern day under most organizations fighting under a Unified Ruleset, they aren't. Lots of things which were "originally intended" for the sport have changed over time.

As I noted above, I wish the weight classes were formulated around fighting weight/cage weight/natural weight or whatever other term someone wants to throw out there. But for all intents and purposes, as they exist today they are simply an arbitrary cap a fighter is expected to meet on a given day prior to competing in a division at a nebulous actual weight.

 

[Safton]

Great answer.

I think it's embarrassing that some fans take what is basically a meme (e.g. "weight bully") seriously. It shows a real lack of intellect (or maybe just a lack of thoughtfulness).

I, personally, wish that massive weight cuts weren't allowed. But massive weight cutting is systemic. To fix it, it would take a policy change that would cover all fighters. Until then, picking on a small handful of fighters for doing something that is both allowed and systemic is beyond obtuse.

Absolutely, 100% this. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp for some people, but I guess conflating individual fighters who cut arbitrarily "too much" weight with the systemic issue of weight-cutting in MMA makes things easier on them by giving them a tangible target to take potshots at.

Even now people are continuing to read my posts where I feel I've been pretty consistent in my stance only for them to trot out the same old tired remarks about "Yeah but massive weight cuts are bad for the divisions and the sport!" Yeah, no shit Sherlock. I already said that. But it's a deeply-ingrained part of the sport (unfortunately) at this point in time, so I dunno what lighting a proverbial pyre underneath random Early Prelim fighter Joe McJohnson because he's better at cutting weight than his peers is supposed to accomplish in the meantime.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Absolutely, 100% this. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp for some people, but I guess conflating individual fighters who cut arbitrarily "too much" weight with the systemic issue of weight-cutting in MMA makes things easier on them by giving them a tangible target to take potshots at.

Even now people are continuing to read my posts where I feel I've been pretty consistent in my stance only for them to trot out the same old tired remarks about "Yeah but massive weight cuts are bad for the divisions and the sport!" Yeah, no shit Sherlock. I already said that. But it's a deeply-ingrained part of the sport (unfortunately) at this point in time, so I dunno what lighting a proverbial pyre underneath random Early Prelim fighter Joe McJohnson because he's better at cutting weight than his peers is supposed to accomplish in the meantime.

Right. There seem to be 3 groups of people.

1. People who don't see a problem and like it unregulated. I think a majority of fans are here.
2. People who wish there were more rules in place to stop massive weight cuts, but haven't thought any further about it than that.
3. People who wish there were more rules in place, understand that it's a challenging policy to implement, recognize that California has been trying for almost a decade to do something about this issue, but know that everything they've tried to do has fallen on deaf ears. And the fact is, UFC could work with State AC's do tackle this issue, but UFC is actually in Group 1. So, nothing is getting done and massive weight cuts continue.

You and I are group 3 of course. And people in group 2 are trying to lecture you from a place of ignorance. It would be funny if it weren't so maddening, eh?

My guess is that something will change when someone dies. That's what happened with (collegiate and high school) wrestling in the 90's, and One FC a few years ago. Until someone dies, there simply isn't enough political will to do anything about this. And frankly, that sucks.

Cheers.

 

[jko1355]

Absolutely, 100% this. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp for some people, but I guess conflating individual fighters who cut arbitrarily "too much" weight with the systemic issue of weight-cutting in MMA makes things easier on them by giving them a tangible target to take potshots at.

Even now people are continuing to read my posts where I feel I've been pretty consistent in my stance only for them to trot out the same old tired remarks about "Yeah but massive weight cuts are bad for the divisions and the sport!" Yeah, no shit Sherlock. I already said that. But it's a deeply-ingrained part of the sport (unfortunately) at this point in time, so I dunno what lighting a proverbial pyre underneath random Early Prelim fighter Joe McJohnson because he's better at cutting weight than his peers is supposed to accomplish in the meantime.

you like to wax poetic too much... you could make your point with half the words and you wouldn't look less intelligent... "lighting a proverbial pyre" "conflating individual fighters who cut arbitrarily "too much" weight"

Noone is burning anyone at a proverbial pyre... noone is overexagerating fighters weight cuts arbitraraialy... people noticed that some guys are cutting way too much weight and it might be more of a negaitve than a positive.

 

[Safton]

you like to wax poetic too much... you could make your point with half the words and you wouldn't look less intelligent... "lighting a proverbial pyre" "conflating individual fighters who cut arbitrarily "too much" weight"

Noone is burning anyone at a proverbial pyre... noone is overexagerating fighters weight cuts arbitraraialy... people noticed that some guys are cutting way too much weight and it might be more of a negaitve than a positive.

Man, if you feel threatened by vocabulary or phrases that are beyond a 5th grade level... I can't really overstate how much that isn't my problem. Scroll on if it bothers you and puts your brain into that much of a bind.

Yes, that is what people do by attaching the "weight bully" title to a given fighter. Your problem is that you again somehow managed to miss the point of my posts above and once again are conflating two different things:

1.) "Fighter XYZ cuts too much weight, is a bully for doing so, we should all say mean things about them." --> Dumb

2.) "Weight-cutting as an institution has gotten out of hand and is a net negative for the sport overall. It doesn't bring much to the final product and seriously impacts matchmaking along with the health of the fighters engaging in it. It's a systemic problem that we should look into fixing." --> Legitimate grievance and a position that I myself also hold.

Once again, I will point out that it is entirely possible to think that #1 is a silly stance to take while simultaneously and wholeheartedly believing #2.