Has Canelo Reached A Whole New Level?

[aries]

Past prime Golovkin and Kovalev are better wins. Also it was Canelo's fourth weight class when fighting Kovalev. Canelo has also given up height and reach while unifying vs Smith and Plant. Four weight classes, plus undisputed, plus wins over Golovkin, Kovalev, Jacobs, and Cotto top anything Usyk has done, and probably ever will do.

A shot Kovalev is a better win than the consensus top 2 fighters at CW? Smith and Plant aren't exactly elites. Plus Canelo has one loss and one draw on his record, Usyk hasn't got a single loss and hasn't even come close to getting a loss. If Usyk beats Joshua again and then beats Fury he is undoubtedly better than Canelo, unless Canelo does something amazing like beating Beterbiev.

 

[Cariñito]

Breidis and Gassiev were both the best CW's in the division and in their prime when Usyk beat them. Canelo beat GGG at the tail end of his career, after arguably losing the first fight, and beat a shot Kovalev.

GGG was the same GGG and Kovalev was close enough. And they are still better wins than Breidis and Gassiev.

 

[mozfonky]

you're not impressed by a performance you didn't see.

brilliant.

not impressed by him, saw a bit of it. I can't figure out why he looks so tight and blocky with his movement. He moves like a bodybuilder and he's not that muscular.

I have to say, I like to be entertained too and even though Fury and Wilder aren't Ali and Frazier, it was entertaining as hell. So, ok, I can take some lack of skill but if it's boring?

 

[deathstalker]

A shot Kovalev is a better win than the consensus top 2 fighters at CW? Smith and Plant aren't exactly elites. Plus Canelo has one loss and one draw on his record, Usyk hasn't got a single loss and hasn't even come close to getting a loss. If Usyk beats Joshua again and then beats Fury he is undoubtedly better than Canelo, unless Canelo does something amazing like beating Beterbiev.

How much can you penalize a draw to Golovkin and a loss to Floyd Mayweather at 23 years old? Usyk never faced guys like that. Also isn't Beterbiev like 36?

 

[Cariñito]

A shot Kovalev is a better win than the consensus top 2 fighters at CW? Smith and Plant aren't exactly elites. Plus Canelo has one loss and one draw on his record, Usyk hasn't got a single loss and hasn't even come close to getting a loss. If Usyk beats Joshua again and then beats Fury he is undoubtedly better than Canelo, unless Canelo does something amazing like beating Beterbiev.

Canelo has 57 wins. Usyk has 19. Canelos been in 20 Championship fights against 18 different World Champions, if we dont count Rocky Fieldings "regular" title, then its 19 Championship fights against 17 different world champions.
Usyk has beaten I think 6 World Champions? Hes got a ways to go before being up in Canelos stratosphere.

 

[randomg1t]

not impressed by him, saw a bit of it. I can't figure out why he looks so tight and blocky with his movement. He moves like a bodybuilder and he's not that muscular.

I have to say, I like to be entertained too and even though Fury and Wilder aren't Ali and Frazier, it was entertaining as hell. So, ok, I can take some lack of skill but if it's boring?

no one is giving you any shit for not liking him. we're amused by your criticism after admitting you don't follow either guy.

of course you like frasier and ali better than their modern counterparts if you don't watch modern boxing.

 

[mozfonky]

no one is giving you any shit for not liking him. we're amused by your criticism after admitting you don't follow either guy.

of course you like frasier and ali better than their modern counterparts if you don't watch modern boxing.

Its Frazier, how dare you!

 

[Hagler]

On a side note :



Thanks for your attention.

 

[aries]

GGG was the same GGG and Kovalev was close enough. And they are still better wins than Breidis and Gassiev.

Agree to disagree then because no way was a shot Kovalev better than Breidis or Gassiev, two CW's in their prime. GGG was old, he's not the same fighter as he was. And Canelo loss the first fight imho.

 

[aries]

How much can you penalize a draw to Golovkin and a loss to Floyd Mayweather at 23 years old? Usyk never faced guys like that. Also isn't Beterbiev like 36?

Canelo should have got the loss vs. GGG imho. Losses are still losses. Usyk never lost and he just faced a legit HW, 6'6" and 240lbs. Yeah Beterbiev is getting on a bit but he's not shown signs of slipping and he is a legit monster puncher at LHW with a 100% KO ratio. Or are you trying to say it's not a big deal if Canelo beats him?

 

[aries]

Canelo has 57 wins. Usyk has 19. Canelos been in 20 Championship fights against 18 different World Champions, if we dont count Rocky Fieldings "regular" title, then its 19 Championship fights against 17 different world champions.
Usyk has beaten I think 6 World Champions? Hes got a ways to go before being up in Canelos stratosphere.

If Usyk beats Joshua again and then Fury, there is no question in my mind he is the greatest fighter of the current era. If Canelo beats Beterbiev then I could see an argument for him being greater.

 

[Nova44]

Agree to disagree then because no way was a shot Kovalev better than Breidis or Gassiev, two CW's in their prime. GGG was old, he's not the same fighter as he was. And Canelo loss the first fight imho.

Regardless of how people view the GGG fights, i don't how how anyone can rate a win over GGG probably 2 years past his prime, and a broken shell of Kovalev ahead of prime Gassiev and Breidis.

Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the wins over GGG and Kov, or any of Canelo's other victims, the dude has accomplished so much, but those 2 wins together aren't even close to beating prime Gassiev and Breidis, it's not even a contest.

 

[deathstalker]

Or are you trying to say it's not a big deal if Canelo beats him?

It definitely would be a big deal, just making sure that he'll get the credit he deserves if he were to beat him. Kovalev was 36 when he fought Canelo as well.

 

[deathstalker]

Regardless of how people view the GGG fights, i don't how how anyone can rate a win over GGG probably 2 years past his prime, and a broken shell of Kovalev ahead of prime Gassiev and Breidis.

Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the wins over GGG and Kov, or any of Canelo's other victims, the dude has accomplished so much, but those 2 wins together aren't even close to beating prime Gassiev and Breidis, it's not even a contest.

It's quite simple, Golovkin and Kovalev are more accomplished fighters than they are. Golovkin debuted as a pro at an older age, even if Canelo would've fought him right after winning the title against Cotto, Golovkin would have been 34. Now lets look at when Canelo actually did fight him, he was a whopping.... 35 lol. Don't forget that Canelo was in his second weight class, having moved up from 154. And for Kovalev he was in his fourth weight class, standing at just 5'7'' fighting the highest rated light heavyweight.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

huh? Many people had the fight close going into the 11th, so your narrative of huge skill gap does not fit this fight. You are acting like it was a Canelo v Mayweather schooling or something. Most of Canelos fights are largely competitive until they end. The highest level of elites didn't have glorified sparring matches, they beat their opponents down completely.

Did you not read the whole post? I'm asking a clear question.

And no, it was not close going into the 11th. Canelo had clearly won rounds 4-10. Somewhat competitive rounds, sure, but not close on the cards.

 

[Roids]

10 competitive close rounds with Caleb Plant does not = on another level.

 

[aries]

It definitely would be a big deal, just making sure that he'll get the credit he deserves if he were to beat him. Kovalev was 36 when he fought Canelo as well.

Kovalev looked shot at 36, was a known heavy drinker and had accumulated a few losses, Beterbiev may be 36 but he had much less mileage on the clock, only 16 fights and is still looking strong. He may fall of a cliff soon but for now he's still on top of his game.

 

[aries]

Regardless of how people view the GGG fights, i don't how how anyone can rate a win over GGG probably 2 years past his prime, and a broken shell of Kovalev ahead of prime Gassiev and Breidis.

Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the wins over GGG and Kov, or any of Canelo's other victims, the dude has accomplished so much, but those 2 wins together aren't even close to beating prime Gassiev and Breidis, it's not even a contest.

Yeah I'm totally with you. Breidis and Gassiev are great wins. Canelo has no single win better than either of them.

 

[Nova44]

It's quite simple, Golovkin and Kovalev are more accomplished fighters than they are. Golovkin debuted as a pro at an older age, even if Canelo would've fought him right after winning the title against Cotto, Golovkin would have been 34. Now lets look at when Canelo actually did fight him, he was a whopping.... 35 lol. Don't forget that Canelo was in his second weight class, having moved up from 154. And for Kovalev he was in his fourth weight class, standing at just 5'7'' fighting the highest rated light heavyweight.

What GGG and Kov achieved isn't the point though. GGG was his best self 2 years before he fought Canelo, and Kovalev was and is a crumpled shell of his former self from years past. That's not a knock on Canelo, that's just a fact. Gassiev and Breidis were the best 2 CWs besides Usyk and they were both at their best when they fought.

Even Canelo fans know Kovalev was shot to hell when they fought, how is this even a debate?

 

[GolovKing]

Regardless of how people view the GGG fights, i don't how how anyone can rate a win over GGG probably 2 years past his prime, and a broken shell of Kovalev ahead of prime Gassiev and Breidis.

Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the wins over GGG and Kov, or any of Canelo's other victims, the dude has accomplished so much, but those 2 wins together aren't even close to beating prime Gassiev and Breidis, it's not even a contest.

I think Golovkin, even a few years past his prime is a higher caliber than either of those guys, especially Gassiev. The issue is that for a lot of fans and historians the fights with Golovkin are questionable, especially the first but even the second seemed like such an evenly contested bout.