Just how good was Wanderlei Silva?

[faustian]

The vastly different change of opponent on short notice goes to show how well rounded Wanderlei was and how much of a beast he was. He was training to fight a 185lb grappler that threw low kicks a lot and accepted a short notice fight with a 280ish K1 striker in Mark Hunt that used his hands a lot more. That's insane.

No doubt. At the time I considered it an insane fight for Wand to take but was just happy he was still on the PPV I bought

Kinda crazy how much times have changed in MMA

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No doubt. At the time I considered it an insane fight for Wand to take but was just happy he was still on the PPV I bought

Kinda crazy how much times have changed in MMA

It makes me think of when Jones wouldn't switch from fighting Hendo to Sonnen. Those two guy are way more similar than Sakuraba and Hunt and wouldn't need nearly the adjustment to fight that Wanderlei had to make.

 

[Spookv]

I agree Wand fought some cans (tho I wouldn’t call Kondo a can) but the fact remains that Wand fought in 3 Pride GPs and none of the guys you listed were good enough to make it to Wand. Granted Lil Nog lost to the eventual champ Shogun but Lil Nog was never considered a serious contender to Wand’s 205 strap

And yes, I consider HW Yoshida in a gi to be a legit opponent in mid-2000s MMA

Maybe I was too outrageous with the whole can crushing quote. But when people talk about how amazing Wanderleis record was pre UFC. I always mentioned his competition in gaining that record were a little to easy.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Maybe I was too outrageous with the whole can crushing quote. But when people talk about how amazing Wanderleis record was pre UFC. I always mentioned his competition in gaining that record were a little to easy.

Does it really matter if he fought a few cans inbetween fighting top level guys? Would you rather him have fought less like the UFC guys instead of staying busy?

 

[faustian]

It makes me think of when Jones wouldn't switch from fighting Hendo to Sonnen. Those two guy are way more similar than Sakuraba and Hunt and wouldn't need nearly the adjustment to fight that Wanderlei had to make.

The crazy thing about that was Jon won his LHW strap because Shogun was willing to take on this undefeated unique talent on short notice as Jon’s replacement to his teammate Rashad. Shogun was a Pride fighter at heart so that’s no surprise

 

[Spookv]

So? It's not like he was asking to fight Sakuraba, the Japanese just want to give the best Japanese fighters chances to fight the best. It's the same reason Fujita got to fight Fedor. If an upset were to happen the Japanese wanted it to be in favor of a Japanese guy because then one of their own would have beaten the monster of the division.

Like I mentioned in one of my previous post. I understand it was a different landscape back then and don't get me wrong Sakuraba is one the most craftiest scrappiest fighter ever, But competition wise Sakuraba should have not taken another fight against Silva

 

[faustian]

Does it really matter if he fought a few cans inbetween fighting top level guys? Would you rather him have fought less like the UFC guys instead of staying busy?

I always bring this up when people claim that Fedor fought cans. Would you have rather him fought 2 times a year rather than 5?

 

[Spookv]

Does it really matter if he fought a few cans inbetween fighting top level guys? Would you rather him have fought less like the UFC guys instead of staying busy?

Nope. Infact I actually think it was good way to keep him from getting fat. I looked at it as warm up

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Like I mentioned in one of my previous post. I understand it was a different landscape back then and don't get me wrong Sakuraba is one the most craftiest scrappiest fighter ever, But competition wise Sakuraba should have not taken another fight against Silva

I agree, but you have to take these things in with all the context of what was happening at the time. People were more willing to fight up in weight and Pride loved the Bushido spirit. Liddell and Couture fought cans as well but they didn't fight nearly as often as guys in Pride. I would rather a guy fight 4-5 times a year with 1-2 fights vs lower level guys than for them to only fight 1-3 times.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Nope. Infact I actually think it was good way to keep him from getting fat. I looked at it as warm up

I agree and I think it was better for the fighters, Shogun for example was and is much better when he's busy(he seems to be a bit more lazy than most MMA fighters from what I have heard/read over the years).

 

[Eater of Souls]

He had an endless reserve of violence in him and he was always willing to share it with anyone.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I always bring this up when people claim that Fedor fought cans. Would you have rather him fought 2 times a year rather than 5?

Nope. A lot of guys need to stay active to stay sharp, and there are only so many top guys around at any given time.

Nothing wrong with a tune-up fight to stay busy.

 

[houjebek]

on 7:54 you see Wanderlei stomping the face on a fallen japanese while Rampage is commentating.
(love that look on Rampage face, like "damn " ).

 

[Iron Wolf]

He was also very small for LHW. I think is all time maybe top 5 for LHW, maybe just outside of it, and he didn’t spend any of his good years at 185, but he could have been at 185 his whole career, quite easily.

So, he can’t be considered an all time MW, either, but, if it makes sense, he was one of the very best p4p fighters ever, for his four year peak.

As far as his distinct and rapid decline - not only did his style relying on roids more than other styles, it also relied on his chin, and Crocop destroyed that. Then Hendo put the final nail in it.

I don’t think he loses to Hendo if not for the damage from the Crocop fight. He was never the same after those fights. Had he been a great grappler he may still have been successful, but standing in the pocket and throwing wildly just doesn’t work without a chin.

He seemed unbeatable for a good long time, even if many of his wins were against cans.

I also think the Hunt fight had a significant deleterious effect on Wand’s chin. Even though he didn’t get banged out, he took some power shots from a 300 lb K-1 champion.

He was rocked several times if I recall correctly.

 

[tramendous]

he was excellent at pulverizing Japanese pro-wrestlers and street sweepers that he outweighed by about 90 lbs

wins over rampagex2, SakurabaX3, Dan Henderson, Ricardo Arona, Hidehiko YoshidaX2.

Relax bro

 

[chinarice]

he lost to chael sonnen and chris leben. just sayin

The worst fighters Wanderlei ever lost to are better fighters than the worst fighters Anderson Silva lost to......

 

[faustian]

I agree and I think it was better for the fighters, Shogun for example was and is much better when he's busy(he seems to be a bit more lazy than most MMA fighters from what I have heard/read over the years).

Fighting 3-5 times per year vs 1-3 also reduces weight cutting and the length on training camps (where most injuries occur)

 

[gono btw]

I'm counting fights he actually won, which. Yvel fight ended too that nut shot. He loss to Hunt. Yuki was alright and Tamura was already on the older side.

ok, but the HW Hunto fight was controversial for instance..

Tamura was 33, tail end of his physical prime sure, but still legit...

Kondo was not "alright", he was legit. wins over the likes of:

Minoru Suzuki
Frank Shamrock
Masakatsu Funaki
HW Semmy Schilt
LHW Guy Mezger
HW Mario Sperry
Split dec. loss vs Hendo
Dec. loss vs LHW Igor

 

[gono btw]

Like I mentioned in one of my previous post. I understand it was a different landscape back then and don't get me wrong Sakuraba is one the most craftiest scrappiest fighter ever, But competition wise Sakuraba should have not taken another fight against Silva

Wand was by no means the worst match-up for SAKU G. Randle & Vitor were worse imo.

The thing is... SAKU G. was a weirdo willing to test himself and test his skill set according to his opponent´s strength...

It is what it is.

 

[HHJ]

Wand was by no means the worst match-up for SAKU G. Randle & Vitor were worse imo.

I disagree. Look at how it unfurled.