Just how good was Wanderlei Silva?

[gono btw]

He beat only 6 top level fighters in his Pride run. Mezger, Sakuraba, Rampage, Fujita, Henderson & Arona. The rest where ALL cans or guys who never belong in the ring with him.

He's a good fighter liked his brawling style and his ground game off his back is underrated, you bring up those fights with Vitor & Tito but fail to mention he loss those. Look at his career in the UFC, that's what his career would look like in Pride if he was fighting top fighters. It was a different time though where all the top 205 where scattered in different orgs. Lil Nog, Overeem, Vovchanchyn, even Lister we're there fighting yet he was matched against people who shouldn't have been in there. I get it, it was the Japanese who wanted to see a fellow countryman beat the unbeatable Wanderlei Silva.

Like I mentioned I enjoyed watching him he's a good fighter but the competition he beat to fill that undefeated streak were gimmes.

You´re callin´ HW Hunto,Kondo,Tamura,Yvel...'cans'... Interesting...

 

[Spookv]

You´re callin´ HW Hunto,Kondo,Tamura,Yvel...'cans'... Interesting...

I'm counting fights he actually won, which. Yvel fight ended too that nut shot. He loss to Hunt. Yuki was alright and Tamura was already on the older side.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I'm counting fights he actually won, which. Yvel fight ended too that nut shot. He loss to Hunt. Yuki was alright and Tamura was already on the older side.

Did you watch the Hunt fight and were you aware of the way they score fights when one guy heavily out weighs the other? A lot of people thought Wanderlei should have gotten the decision over Mark Hunt and he was training to fight Sakuraba.

Wanderlei fought very few cans for someone that fought during his era.

 

[MuayChai297]

He was the just bleed god right hand when he was in his prime. The difination of violence.

 

[Damon3388]

It was always a highlight when Chael would pronounce "Van-der-lay" in an exaggerated fashion.

 

[Spookv]

Did you watch the Hunt fight and were you aware of the way they score fights when one guy heavily out weighs the other? A lot of people thought Wanderlei should have gotten the decision over Mark Hunt and he was training to fight Sakuraba.

Wanderlei fought very few cans for someone that fought during his era.

Well Hunt caused more damage and was almost forcing Silva to wrestler. There was a big weight advantage on the side of Hunt but it was like his 3 or 4 MMA fight.

 

[faustian]

He beat only 6 top level fighters in his Pride run. Mezger, Sakuraba, Rampage, Fujita, Henderson & Arona.

You fail to mention that he beat those guys a combined 9 times. And you left out Yoshida who was a HW Olympic judoka specifically brought in to beat Wand. And Wand was 2-0 vs him

How many ATGs were 9-1 vs top comp (11-1 if you include Yoshida)?

The rest where ALL cans or guys who never belong in the ring with him.

I won’t argue that Wand did indeed stomp a few cans in his day

He's a good fighter liked his brawling style and his ground game off his back is underrated, you bring up those fights with Vitor & Tito but fail to mention he loss those.

Looking at Wand’s physique you can reasonably argue he didn’t start juicing until midway through his Pride career. Meanwhile Vitor was sassed from the get and Tito was a natural HW who wrestlefucked a natural MW under favorable unified UFC rules (I doubt anyone would argue Wand wouldn’t have finished that fight with knees/soccer kicks/stomps when he had Tito rocked and stumbling backwards in retreat)

Look at his career in the UFC,

Irrelevant imo

that's what his career would look like in Pride if he was fighting top fighters. It was a different time though where all the top 205 where scattered in different orgs. Lil Nog, Overeem, Vovchanchyn, even Lister we're there fighting yet he was matched against people who shouldn't have been in there. I get it, it was the Japanese who wanted to see a fellow countryman beat the unbeatable Wanderlei Silva.

This is why I find the previous quote irrelevant. No one can make a legitimate claim that the UFC 205 division was superior to Pride’s.

Only reason Wand never got to beat up on the likes of Reem, Lil Nog, Igor, etc is because none of them were ever good enough to become legit #1 contenders in Pride, and they all fought in GPs with Wand yet they all lost prior to the finals

Saku, Page, Arona were all considered the top contenders during Wand’s reign and Wand beat them all, some of them multiple times

I will concede that Wand never fought his teammate Shogun but I think that’s understandable (he did say tho that he would’ve fought Shogun had it come to it in the 2005 GP)

 

[Pierced7681]

Oh sheet, did the guy get busted for them? Or you just assuming he was on them cause he was that good?

He ran from a random test in the ufc, was banned for life but managed to get it overturned on appeal. Guy is a known roider.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Well Hunt caused more damage and was almost forcing Silva to wrestler. There was a big weight advantage on the side of Hunt but it was like his 3 or 4 MMA fight.

Wanderlei wrestled cause he was smart, Hunt is a better striker that had about 100lbs on him. In Pride if you fought someone much larger you got a kind of handicap where if the fight was close but was edged by the heavier guy by a little then the other guy won.

 

[Wes-Sic]

he was excellent at pulverizing Japanese pro-wrestlers and street sweepers that he outweighed by about 90 lbs

Ask Rampage!!

 

[Greco_Wiz]

One of the most overrated fighters in mma history. Right behind CC.

 

[Ronin13]

everybody should get to be GOAT for a week to make it fair. We have so many why not.

I was goat last week. Who’s next.

 

[SanchoMF]

This guy.. Juiced up to gills and ready to take on anyone.

 

[Spookv]

You fail to mention that he beat those guys a combined 9 times. And you left out Yoshida who was a HW Olympic judoka specifically brought in to beat Wand. And Wand was 2-0 vs him

How many ATGs were 9-1 vs top comp (11-1 if you include Yoshida)?



I won’t argue that Wand did indeed stomp a few cans in his day


Looking at Wand’s physique you can reasonably argue he didn’t start juicing until midway through his Pride career. Meanwhile Vitor was sassed from the get and Tito was a natural HW who wrestlefucked a natural MW under favorable unified UFC rules (I doubt anyone would argue Wand wouldn’t have finished that fight with knees/soccer kicks/stomps when he had Tito rocked and stumbling backwards in retreat)



Irrelevant imo


This is why I find the previous quote irrelevant. No one can make a legitimate claim that the UFC 205 division was superior to Pride’s.

Only reason Wand never got to beat up on the likes of Reem, Lil Nog, Igor, etc is because none of them were ever good enough to become legit #1 contenders in Pride, and they all fought in GPs with Wand yet they all lost prior to the finals

Saku, Page, Arona were all considered the top contenders during Wand’s reign and Wand beat them all, some of them multiple times

I will concede that Wand never fought his teammate Shogun but I think that’s understandable (he did say tho that he would’ve fought Shogun had it come to it in the 2005 GP)

You really thought Yoshida stood a chance against Wanderlei?
Yes in the tournament format Alistair, Lil Nog, Igor never got the chance as they were eliminated. But if Minowa and Konda can get a chance to fight Silva, then why the not give the fighters I mentioned a chance.

 

[faustian]

Wanderlei wrestled cause he was smart, Hunt is a better striker that had about 100lbs on him. In Pride if you fought someone much larger you got a kind of handicap where if the fight was close but was edged by the heavier guy by a little then the other guy won.

It wasn’t just a kind of handicap, Pride specifically stated in their judging criteria that weight difference was a major consideration, particularly in close fights, which Silva/Hunt definitely was. Hell if it happened in the UFC then Wand would’ve likely won based on the TDs alone

Why they ignored that criterion in Silva/Hunt is anyone’s guess, but in any case it’s a counter to the argument that Pride was protecting Wand

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

It wasn’t just a kind of handicap, Pride specifically stated in their judging criteria that weight difference was a major consideration, particularly in close fights, which Silva/Hunt definitely was. Hell if it happened in the UFC then Wand would’ve likely won based on the TDs alone

Why they ignored that criterion in Silva/Hunt is anyone’s guess, but in any case it’s a counter to the argument that Pride was protecting Wand

The vastly different change of opponent on short notice goes to show how well rounded Wanderlei was and how much of a beast he was. He was training to fight a 185lb grappler that threw low kicks a lot and accepted a short notice fight with a 280ish K1 striker in Mark Hunt that used his hands a lot more. That's insane.

 

[faustian]

You really thought Yoshida stood a chance against Wanderlei?
Yes in the tournament format Alistair, Lil Nog, Igor never got the chance as they were eliminated. But if Minowa and Konda can get a chance to fight Silva, then why the not give the fighters I mentioned a chance.

I agree Wand fought some cans (tho I wouldn’t call Kondo a can) but the fact remains that Wand fought in 3 Pride GPs and none of the guys you listed were good enough to make it to Wand. Granted Lil Nog lost to the eventual champ Shogun but Lil Nog was never considered a serious contender to Wand’s 205 strap

And yes, I consider HW Yoshida in a gi to be a legit opponent in mid-2000s MMA

 

[Spookv]

The vastly different change of opponent on short notice goes to show how well rounded Wanderlei was and how much of a beast he was. He was training to fight a 185lb grappler that threw low kicks a lot and accepted a short notice fight with a 280ish K1 striker in Mark Hunt that used his hands a lot more. That's insane.

Who was that 185 grappler? Sakuraba? Who Wanderlei smashed a few times already.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Who was that 185 grappler? Sakuraba? Who Wanderlei smashed a few times already.

So? It's not like he was asking to fight Sakuraba, the Japanese just want to give the best Japanese fighters chances to fight the best. It's the same reason Fujita got to fight Fedor. If an upset were to happen the Japanese wanted it to be in favor of a Japanese guy because then one of their own would have beaten the monster of the division.

 

[revoltub]

Better than Shogun IMO although Shogun gets all of the glory.