Crime Maine shooting - 18 dead

[spamking]

LOL do you really want to argue that the US has strict gun laws compared to other developed countries?

I don't care about laws in other developed countries.

Nope, comparing vehicles to guns is a false equivalence fallacy. Sorry.

I didn't compare vehicles to guns you goof.

 

[spamking]

Yup. His entire " bad guys targeting gun-free zones" argument is pretty silly anyway. By his logic, Europe would be a disaster when it comes to mass shootings.

It's okay if you don't understand. It's been pretty clear what your angle has been in here anyway.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Americans love guns more than they love their children. What a bizzare society

The Gun God is a thirsty god and must be appeased with much blood.

 

[Claude]

Where did I say I played Rambo. That's your bullshit idea.

Like I said guns are used in self defense 1.5 to 2.5 million times a year approximately. The overwhelming times never fired. The anti gun like to count only times the gun is fired as self-defense and that's bullshit. The same as counting suicide on any figures.

Like I said you are counting benefits by the state as rights and freedom which are not rights. You have no rights the government doesn't give you in most countries. They don't view right as being born to you they are at the whim of the government.

If that's how you want to live who am I to question your choice.

I don't live in fear. I live prepared to protect myself and family. Wither it be from a fire and other dangers. Being prepared is not about fear it's about responsibility. My responsibility to my family.
If anyone doesn't want or believe in guns or self defense that's their right here in the US.

But you do you and do what you want and live where you like under the laws and restrictions you like.

Eh, I never said you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Taking Switzerland as an example again, the swiss love guns. They have one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. It's part of their tradition. And yet, they've only had 1 mass shooting since 2001 and no school shootings ever.

Difference? They have very strict gun laws.

But, you wouldn't be willing to accept that, would you? So is it really a matter of being able to protect yourself or maybe, just maybe, it's a whim? Like a baby who doesn't want to let go of the toy.

 

[Zazen]

I don't care about laws in other developed countries.

I didn't compare vehicles to guns you goof.

You should care. If we can learn something that can reduce gun deaths then why not try? What do we have to lose at this point? If you want to do nothing then just be honest and say I don’t care if kids die as long as we have total access to all kinds of weaponry. It may sound extremely cruel but at least it’s the honest answer for some

 

[Claude]

I don't care about laws in other developed countries.

You should. You could learn a lot. Especially in gun laws.

I didn't compare vehicles to guns you goof.

"I don't stop driving when someone dies in a car wreck"

You made a dumb, fallacious analogy.

 

[Claude]

It's okay if you don't understand. It's been pretty clear what your angle has been in here anyway.

Another non argument.

Next.

 

[ermac88]

And here we go. Over 20 people dead and 50 injured and the 3rd post is @skold immediately thinking "How can I make this about my political stances"?

Christ, dude. One thing everyone can agree on is this a tragedy and the only focus right now is the victims, their families and the evil piece of shit who did it. At least wait long enough for the bodies to be cold before you make this about you.


Can't even imagine being one of these people or their families right now. Just a horrendous incident. I go back and forth on death penalties, but people like this shouldn't be brought it in alive.

man, i've been hearing this bullshit response for twenty years with every mass murder. kids, adults it doesnt matter.

"well now is the time to grieve."

So when the fuck is the time to figure out a solution?
Cause we spend all our fucking time thinking, grieving and praying to a spook in the sky.

 

[Larzon]

Stop it with this hyperbole. You know that isn't it.

An unarmed society is at the mercy of it's leadership, or whoever else is armed.

Many Americans, including those who founded this country, rightfully fear tyranny and oppression more than they fear their anarchy more than their neighbor.

For me it's just a matter of simple statistics:

The odds of my child being murdered in a mass shooting is roughly 1 in 500,000.

I calculate the odds of my child being killed due to civil unrest or societal collapse for one of many reasons to be at least 100 times higher than that.

If those odds were to change I would change my opinion.

Cook on cooker

 

[oldshadow]

Eh, I never said you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Taking Switzerland as an example again, the swiss love guns. They have one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. It's part of their tradition. And yet, they've only had 1 mass shooting since 2001 and no school shootings ever.

Difference? They have very strict gun laws and automatic weapons are banned.

But, you wouldn't be willing to accept that, would you? So is it really a matter of being able to protect yourself or maybe, just maybe, it's a whim? Like a baby who doesn't want to let go of the toy.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to own an automatic weapon it is in the US?.

They have very strick gun laws and the make up of their country is very different then the US and that's more the reason for their gun violence rates.

The idea that you think guns are like toys to anyone tells how much you know about guns and the US.

I'm open to some minor changes in gun law like red flag. But before that I want the laws we have enforced and more criminal control.

 

[Bob Gray]

man, i've been hearing this bullshit response for twenty years with every mass murder. kids, adults it doesnt matter.

"well now is the time to grieve."

So when the fuck is the time to figure out a solution?
Cause we spend all our fucking time thinking, grieving and praying to a spook in the sky.

I didnt say "Now is the time to grieve." I basically said "Now is not the time to make this about you."

 

[Siver!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67263059

Three months before a US Army reservist fatally shot 18 people in Maine, the military says it determined he should not be allowed a weapon.

Robert Card was evaluated in July after behaving erratically and was found to be "non-deployable due to concerns over his well-being", the Army said.

He spent 14 days in a psychiatric hospital before being released.

Card was found dead on Friday, ending a manhunt after the mass shooting at a bar and bowling alley last Wednesday.

More than a dozen people were also injured in the shooting in the city of Lewiston.

Maine firearms store owner Rick LaChapelle told the New York Times and ABC News the 40-year-old suspect had entered his shop on 5 August to pick-up a silencer he had bought online.

He had to fill out a form, which included a question that asked: "Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Card answered yes, Mr LaChapelle said.

The staff looked at the form and told Card he was not eligible to purchase the silencer because of his answers on the questionnaire.

Card was committed to a mental health facility for two weeks in July after "hearing voices and threats to shoot up" a military base, the Associated Press reported.

That same month, the military decided that Card was "non-deployable due to concerns over his well-being", Army spokesperson Lt Col Ruth Castro said in an emailed statement.

Card was also deemed unfit by the Army to have a weapon, handle ammunition or "participate in live fire activity". They said the Army Reserve Command had made "multiple attempts" to contact Card.

Police have confirmed that Card was known to have undergone mental health evaluations, but that he had never been forcibly committed for treatment.

In September, the Maine National Guard issued a state-wide warning about Card, saying that they feared he would "snap and commit a mass shooting", according to law enforcement sources who spoke to CNN.

The warning came after another incident in which Card allegedly punched his friend - a fellow soldier - during an argument and made threats against his US Army base in Saco, Maine.

Sagadahoc County Sheriff Joel Merry said in a Monday evening statement that his office was contacted in May by members of Card's family concerned over his mental health and access to weapons.

Mr Merry said a deputy within his office notified the reservist's Army Reserve training group.

The sheriff said that on two occasions in September a deputy could not find the reservist at his home in Bowdoin, prompting the state-wide alert.

The litany of missed warnings on Card have sparked a debate about Maine's "yellow flag" law, passed in 2019.

The measure requires several steps before guns can be taken by authorities from someone deemed to pose a danger to himself or others.

It is seen as a weaker version of a "red flag" law, which involve fewer procedural steps in allowing a court to order the temporary removal of a firearm from someone.

Card was found dead from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound on Friday night, police said, near a river around 10 miles (16km) from Lewiston.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67263059

Three months before a US Army reservist fatally shot 18 people in Maine, the military says it determined he should not be allowed a weapon.

Robert Card was evaluated in July after behaving erratically and was found to be "non-deployable due to concerns over his well-being", the Army said.

He spent 14 days in a psychiatric hospital before being released.

Card was found dead on Friday, ending a manhunt after the mass shooting at a bar and bowling alley last Wednesday.

More than a dozen people were also injured in the shooting in the city of Lewiston.

Maine firearms store owner Rick LaChapelle told the New York Times and ABC News the 40-year-old suspect had entered his shop on 5 August to pick-up a silencer he had bought online.

He had to fill out a form, which included a question that asked: "Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Card answered yes, Mr LaChapelle said.

The staff looked at the form and told Card he was not eligible to purchase the silencer because of his answers on the questionnaire.

Card was committed to a mental health facility for two weeks in July after "hearing voices and threats to shoot up" a military base, the Associated Press reported.

That same month, the military decided that Card was "non-deployable due to concerns over his well-being", Army spokesperson Lt Col Ruth Castro said in an emailed statement.

Card was also deemed unfit by the Army to have a weapon, handle ammunition or "participate in live fire activity". They said the Army Reserve Command had made "multiple attempts" to contact Card.

Police have confirmed that Card was known to have undergone mental health evaluations, but that he had never been forcibly committed for treatment.

In September, the Maine National Guard issued a state-wide warning about Card, saying that they feared he would "snap and commit a mass shooting", according to law enforcement sources who spoke to CNN.

The warning came after another incident in which Card allegedly punched his friend - a fellow soldier - during an argument and made threats against his US Army base in Saco, Maine.

Sagadahoc County Sheriff Joel Merry said in a Monday evening statement that his office was contacted in May by members of Card's family concerned over his mental health and access to weapons.

Mr Merry said a deputy within his office notified the reservist's Army Reserve training group.

The sheriff said that on two occasions in September a deputy could not find the reservist at his home in Bowdoin, prompting the state-wide alert.

The litany of missed warnings on Card have sparked a debate about Maine's "yellow flag" law, passed in 2019.

The measure requires several steps before guns can be taken by authorities from someone deemed to pose a danger to himself or others.

It is seen as a weaker version of a "red flag" law, which involve fewer procedural steps in allowing a court to order the temporary removal of a firearm from someone.

Card was found dead from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound on Friday night, police said, near a river around 10 miles (16km) from Lewiston.

How is it even legal to buy a silencer? What civilian purpose does a silencer have other than quietly murdering someone?

That shit is hilarious.

 

[jlagman]

How is it even legal to buy a silencer? What civilian purpose does a silencer have other than quietly murdering someone?

That shit is hilarious.

You must think the Bourne movies are documentaries or something.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

I think you're missing the core of their argument here. Whether you label a place a "gun free zone" or not, you're always going to have places where people aren't carrying guns and people who want to commit this type of violence will always seek those places out. These are not individuals randomly deciding to start shooting. They are individuals who have scoped out their target locations and often scoped out multiple locations before settling on the location that gives them the greatest advantage.

Simply removing gun free zones affects none of that. Simply letting more people carry firearms affects none of that because the shooters are planning their attacks. There's always a chance for a good guy with a gun but the assailants are choosing minimal resistance targets.

Let's say you stop making schools gun free zones. So what? Are teachers going to suddenly all become licensed and proficient gun owners who bring their weapons to work and are always focused on the potential of a mass shooting? Or will it remain a location filled with people focused on teaching children where the adults are siloed away from each other with minimal communication about the dangers on the premises in real time? Take a hospital -- are we really expecting a bunch of doctors, nurses and lab teachs to be wandering the halls with open carry firearms, attuned to the danger that the random individual who walked into the ER is intending to starting shooting indiscriminately? Or will they be attuned to their patients and regular activities. Pick any location outside of a gun range or actively hostile environment and it's the same situation. Gun free zones aren't the problem and eliminating them isn't a solution because it ignores that regular people aren't walking around prepared to deal with violent shooting. And by the time they've switched to that mindset, a bunch of people will already be dead.

For your position to work, everyone would have to be always dialed in to dealing with mass shooters and so live their lives prepared that way. Might as well live in a war zone if that's the only solution.

The bad guys almost always have the advantage of shooting first. When you're shooting first with an automatic, or even semi, a couple of people are usually already getting mowed down, even if a good guy with a gun is there. Unless, as you say, they're all already dialled into a combat situation at all times, which is obviously not feasible.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

You must think the Bourne movies are documentaries or something.

What are you even talking about?

 

[jlagman]

What are you even talking about?

"Silencers" aren't that silent; you bought into the bullshit. Look at all the gun-hating counties that mandate their use when hunting.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

"Silencers" aren't that silent; you bought into the bullshit. Look at all the gun-hating counties that mandate their use when hunting.

Ummm. Ok.

Can you explain to me what their purpose is then?

 

[jlagman]

Ummm. Ok.

Can you explain to me what their purpose is then?

To not be an asshole by making loud noises; kinda like how mufflers became standard on vehicles so you're not constantly pissing off the neighbours.

You can still hear a suppressed shot, it isn't as obnoxious.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

man, i've been hearing this bullshit response for twenty years with every mass murder. kids, adults it doesnt matter.

"well now is the time to grieve."

So when the fuck is the time to figure out a solution?
Cause we spend all our fucking time thinking, grieving and praying to a spook in the sky.

we already have the solution. mandatory AR training in preschools