Professional Wrestling Discussion Thread III

[BrooklynBomber]

Meltzer said he bets Vince is kicking himself for not thinking of the current Guerrero angle with Melanie Pillman when Brian died.

 

[Sinister]

You know, maybe it's just me or maybe that it's the WWE that puts the bad taste in people's mouths. But I don't think the Guerrero angle is such a bad angle really. I mean come on, this is Eddie Guerrero. He took part in some of the most obscene storylines in both mainstream and indie wrestling. I don't think this shit would bother him at all. In fact, I think he'd be disappointed that it's not as bloody and forward as it COULD be.

However I think the thing detracting from it is exactly that. It's not believable right now. Vicky isn't good enough of an actress and Rey never was good enough in storylines. This should be an all-out War. A bloodbath. Chavo at his supreme worst as a heel. But they're holding it back, which is stupid. Either commit totally to it or don't. That's the only way it works. But as far as terrible and morally incorrect storylines I've seen far worse.

Hell Vince wanted to do an angle where it turned out he's the Father of Steph's baby.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Hell Vince wanted to do an angle where it turned out he's the Father of Steph's baby.

True, but they're both still alive and had say in the matter.

 

[peves]

It's just a personal thing. I hate seeing death used to sell, regardless if it's a story line or a book. Coupled with the WWE using a backwards logic story line and bad actors, and guessing that Vince would have a marketing field day if his son or family member ever passed away, it's sorta just a big ball of disgust for me. I think Eddie woulda dug the idea, but at this point even he must be like "c'mon already with my name."

 

[QQ]

It's just a personal thing. I hate seeing death used to sell, regardless if it's a story line or a book. Coupled with the WWE using a backwards logic story line and bad actors, and guessing that Vince would have a marketing field day if his son or family member ever passed away, it's sorta just a big ball of disgust for me. I think Eddie woulda dug the idea, but at this point even he must be like "c'mon already with my name."

I don't like it either

 

[chknhawk]

Do you think Vince would exploit the death of a white wrestler?

OK let me state from the beginning, I am 26 years old and am a life long wrestling fan I grew up watching WWF with some of it's most ridiculous gimmicks and angles in the late
80's and I was weaned on the four horsemen and the Road Warriors. I read this forum all the time and occasionally may ask a question or make a random post. White Snake ALOT of times you show a vast knowledge of the wrestling world and make very enlightening posts so why in the world would you bring race into this situation? I am not a fan of what is going on in SD with the Guerrero name either, and I know Vince can be slimy as hell but I really Truly do not beleive that Race plays into this one. Fistly, isn't Vickie Guerrero caucassion? Secondly, I haven't done alot of research into the matter but what is the financial situation of Mrs. Guerrero? Is it maybe possible that Vince is helping her pay some bills with this angle right now? Thirdly, yes Vince is producing and airing the show that it is occurring on, but does he have a gun to Rey and Chavo and Vickie's head, making them perform week after week on WWE programming? They should also take some responsibility for what is taking place right now. Like I said, I hate to jump in and look like an interloper in your conversation, but all sides of the story should be looked at before making accusations.

 

[White Snake]

^Good argument, but I find it fishy because NOBODY ELSE's death in wrestling has been exploited as much as Eddy Guerrero's and he happens to be a minority.

 

[peves]

Guerrero's death probably also happened at the height of his popularity and was the easiest to cash in on since his family seems closer to Vince than the Harts were at the time of Owen's death. I think it has been exploited to this point more so because of his popularity rather than any race issue.

Vince, for all his faults, sees straight to the green regardless of color/race/creed.

 

[chknhawk]

But as I said before Eddie's family is taking part in this angle, we all know that there is no way that the Hart family would agree to go forward with any programs like this. As for Brian Pillman's wife, I really don't know enough about her background to argue the point. Death is tragic, in any scenario, but whatever reason, The Guerrero family and friends have chosen to take part in this. As I said, it may be financially motivated, I'm sure that Vickie Guerrero and her family were used to a certain kind of lifestyle, one that is probably hard to maintain now with her husband's tragedy.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

OK let me state from the beginning, I am 26 years old and am a life long wrestling fan I grew up watching WWF with some of it's most ridiculous gimmicks and angles in the late
80's and I was weaned on the four horsemen and the Road Warriors. I read this forum all the time and occasionally may ask a question or make a random post. White Snake ALOT of times you show a vast knowledge of the wrestling world and make very enlightening posts so why in the world would you bring race into this situation? I am not a fan of what is going on in SD with the Guerrero name either, and I know Vince can be slimy as hell but I really Truly do not beleive that Race plays into this one. Fistly, isn't Vickie Guerrero caucassion? Secondly, I haven't done alot of research into the matter but what is the financial situation of Mrs. Guerrero? Is it maybe possible that Vince is helping her pay some bills with this angle right now? Thirdly, yes Vince is producing and airing the show that it is occurring on, but does he have a gun to Rey and Chavo and Vickie's head, making them perform week after week on WWE programming? They should also take some responsibility for what is taking place right now. Like I said, I hate to jump in and look like an interloper in your conversation, but all sides of the story should be looked at before making accusations.

Consider however, that Vince, Stephanie, and John Laurinitis have all been concerned about gaining viewership in Latino markets, and that those are among the first numbers presented at meetings and conference calls. I think its more than coincidental.

***EDIT: I'd just like to articulate my point. I'm not saying that the WWE officials are rascist, I'm saying that they don't care about exploitation and will use it to benefit them in any manner possible. Its not a racial issue, its a business issue and it can work well.

The white wrestlers who've died suddenly that were under Vince's employment at one time or another either did not have relationships with McMahon & co at the time, or were simply not "marketable" at that stand point. I couldn't see Vince plastering the late Crash Holly's name all over television.

In the case of Brian Pillman's situation, with his close friends the Hart family still in the employ of the McMahon's trying to exploit his death would probably have caused them to protest and bolt to WCW pre-screwjob. Except maybe Davey Boy who would have said "I'm going to win the belt for Brian," like he did with Owen.

So its not a matter of racism so much as it is being able to exploit the death of a top superstar and make money off of it because nobody had the spine to say anything about it being wrong, and going along with it, like Mysterio, Benoit, Chavo, Malenko, Vickie, and Orton.

 

[A Bird]

Do you think Vince would exploit the death of a white wrestler?

I think Eddie's situation is very unique including, but also going beyond, his race.

For starters, at the time of his death Eddie was involved in a World title angle. I don't think any of the other wrestlers who have died suddenly in recent years were on that level of importance within the WWE at the time of their respective deaths. Eddie is also a wrestler who by all accounts was loved by most of the locker room, so while us smarts all want to see Eddie layed to rest perhaps Vince isn't the only one behind the scenes in the WWE who isn't ready to let go of Eddie. Finally Eddie is one of the wrestlers who has done some of the most outrageous angles in mainstream pro wrestling. A few months before his death the man participating in angle that had him wrestling one of his best friends in a ladder match for the custody of his friend's child.

However I think race is also something of a factor here. Maybe I'm wrong but it's my understanding that latino pro wrestlers get much more respect among the latino community than most pro wrestlers get from mainstream fans these days. The status of latino pro wrestlers amongst latino fans more closely approaches that of other pro athletes among their culture. In other pro sports there are constant allusions to greats who have passed on, so to appeal to latino fans it makes sense to continue to allude to Eddie who is arguably the biggest name among latino wrestlers.

The difference here is that pro wrestling is uniquely equipped to take even more advantage a dead superstar than any other sport. The continous Eddie angles are similar to baseball hyping guys like McGwire, Sosa, or Bonds chasing home run records set by long retired or even dead baseball greats. However, by its very nature pro wrestling twists the exploitation of Eddie's death by trying to wring as much drama as possible out of it.

 

[peves]

Bling belts (Cena, Edge): Good or Bad?

I say bad, but a sign of the times. Bad times.

EDIT: Oh yeah...Discuss.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Bling belts are horrible. They're part of what will eventually be a horribly dated sub-culture, and are disrespectful to the former titleholders. Edge's belt is worse than Cena's. At least Cena's kept the WWE logo on it. Edge's belt has nothing on it to signify that he's the WWE champion. They're both cheap looking pieces of junk belts that need to go in a hurry.

 

[flowwiththego]

I never knew Eddie and don't claim to have any insight into what he was like and what he wanted his legacy to be. Also, if you guys read my posts you know how I feel about the health and well being of pro wrestlers. The death of Eddie hit me pretty hard (as much as the death of someone you don't personally know can) and started me on a month long rant on the perils of pro wrestling and quite the spirited debate with Kabuki. That being said, here we go:
Maybe, just maybe, Eddie would have not minded what is going on (like Kabuki wrote.) Think about it, maybe he would want his family to make money off of him. I would want my wife to have a comfortable life after I was gone and I wouldn't mind if she made a comfortable living at my expense- even though I don't think it is that bad (once again as Kabuki wrote.) The best thing for everyone is if Eddie was alive and healthy and supporting his family, but that is not going to happen. Maybe this is the next best thing. Let Vickie make some money, let Chavo make some money, and let his kids have a future. I am sure they have made more money in the past ten months than a hundred tribute shows could generate.

 

[boxhead51]

i wonder if Mr. McMahon like BBQ chicken

 

[flowwiththego]

I HATE the "bling" belts. I absolutetely LOATHE the spinning belt. This is further proof that the titles mean nothing and titleholders mean less. I never cared for Bob Backlund when I was a kid and he was champion in the 70's but I knew he was something because of the belt he wore. Tradition is a strong thing and shouldn't be fucked with. Sometimes, it seems McMahon is going way over the extreme to prove, at 61, that he is still relevant and contemporary. Somebody needs to tell him he already has the job and the big bank account --- he doesn't need to impress anyone. Having a big bank account is ALWAYS cool.

 

[A Bird]

I also dislike the bling belts. It sort of made sense for Cena, and there is a precedent for custom belts, but it is an idiotic thing for Edge to do.

I don't understand personally. Is WWE creative intending to bury Edge? They are certainly setting him up for it. They refuse to put him over Cena clean emphasizing the point that even though he's champ he's not as good as Cena. Now they're having him follow Cena's lead with the "Rated R belt". Soon he'll lose Lita as his manager who, no matter what we think of her, is Edge's most important prop for setting up the dirty wins. So then what? He drops the belt to Cena and ends up getting stuck in the no man's land of being too big for the IC title but not good enough to be champ. You can only get beat down by John Cena so many times before the fans start to abandon you. Maybe Edge and Christian will get to reunite under the TNA banner.

 

[ashida.kim**]

wow chris masters seriously slimmed down. thought it was phil baroni when he came out..

 

[mikebourkefan]

lita"s match was to slow

 

[chknhawk]

I don't know why they still haven't gotten rid of the spinning belts....I prayed that RVD would burn it during the short period of time that he held it. The spinner belt doesn't even match Cena's gimmick anymore(It never matched Edge's) But Cena has evolved from a Rapper to a blue collar tough guy....when is the last time anyone saw him behaving like he did when he was on smackdown? In the past the E gave SCSA and the Rock their own personalized belts, but at the end of their title runs they went back to the good ole wwe belt, they ought to do that now.