International Russia vs Ukraine Combat Megathread vol 4

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don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100%. I been calling for Zelenskyy to throw in the towel since this started since the west is not coming and the Ukrainians are going to get destroyed. Just pointing out how the west is egging this on, despite doing nothing to stop it
I thought so as well but these sanctions are really tough, who knows how much pain its putting the Russians in right now. Maybe if he and his military can hold out for a dozen weeks or so they can avoid conceding to Putin's most egregious demands. Remember Putin wants to "de-militarize" Ukraine so if Zelensky can at least manage to save his military it could be a decent silver-lining even if he loses border territories.

If the Ukrainian military collapses then I say its time to throw in the towel.
 

Good attitude. Too bad more people couldn't adopt this attitude for a bunch of reasons. Doubt a Russian soldier could get away with saying the same thing without serious repercussions. Sucks, as I doubt most of them want to be in Ukraine.

It's always the little guy paying the price for the ambitions of the powerful.
 
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So Putin's meeting with Ukrainian ex-President Yanukovych was just a ploy to make us think he wanted to install a pro-Russian puppet? And what's the point of capturing Russian areas of Ukraine if Ukraine joins NATO? Or was that not his goal at all? I could see him looking for an out and trying to get as much out of a deal as possible but I don't believe that was his end game. He's clearly disturbed by the level of sanctions imposed on Russia no matter how prepared he claimed to be. Everything he's doing at this point seems like damage control.
Best case scenario is to topple Zelensky and install a puppet government, no question. But Putin is the type of actor who is willing to compromise, in fact I think some of these supposed delays in the Russian advance is due to Putin allowing for time for diplomatic talks.
 
This seems to go against the narrative that this invasion is a massive failure. If you only watch mainstream media you'd think that they have barely set foot in the country.
Did you see the alternative map I posted of how the Russian invasion is going? There is a lot of propaganda going on in this war and I'd be highly suspicious of a Russian map showing they've taken over half the country.
 
I doubt they want to hold it. Most likely they will try to push as far as possible and once they hit a wall they will try to twist Ukraine's arm into a a favorable peace deal where Russians keep some or all of the Russophone areas they've taken.

The only X factor in Ukraine's favor is the depth of the sanctions on Russia which might not make it worth it to commit to time and resources to achieving the political objectives in Ukraine.

I lean slightly differently. I think the sanctions will probably have a different effect personally. I've been on the donbas region is the entire goal the whole time still am actually.

But I think with these sanctions putin may be forced to push harder as a means of getting to the negotiating table with a semblance of power.
 
Why?
Maybe better is to die with honor rather than slowly from starving as Kremlin's slaves?

Kremlin hoped that they will welcome russian military and hope on mercy from occupants.

Now best thing already is achieved: Russia had lost this game.
World will push Russia till state treasury default, very high unemployment %, most likely on food stamps.

Then Kremlin will have no escape: only to be appendix for China as cheap wood, oil and natural gas suppliers for prices dictated by China.

To make this happen faster, even China might implement sanctions on Russia and lift when Russia will agree with everything China will demand.


Putin and oligarchs anyway will not care: they does have gold, diamonds, mortgage, businesses and dollars. They will live with the same comfort level like nothing had happened.

You seem like the type of Dad who would rather let his family die than give the robbers what they want
 
supposed delays in the Russian advance is due to Putin allowing for time for diplomatic talks.
Most likely he just is planning how to fill EU with more refugees.

Putin even is hoping that someone will believe him.
Germany already does have these refugees and they might offer Switzerland, Panama and Egypt to take these refugees OR...........LOL.
 
You seem like the type of Dad who would rather let his family die than give the robbers what they want
Well, you don't know their history.
They already does have experience with Russian GULAG empire, Great Purge, Holodomor.

Russia never keeps their promises, they aren't robbers.

Only idiots will trust Kremlin's promises.
 
Best case scenario is to topple Zelensky and install a puppet government, no question. But Putin is the type of actor who is willing to compromise, in fact I think some of these supposed delays in the Russian advance is due to Putin allowing for time for diplomatic talks.
Oh he'll compromise no doubt but to me this is going to end in an abject failure for him. Russia has looked really bad militarily and politically, they are an international pariah, their economy has taken heavy damage, some of which is not recoverable, they've lost the Nordstream II pipeline, Europe will do as much as they can to decrease it's reliance on Russian fossil fuels, they've pushed away foreign investors and they have just reinforced the resolve of the only non-NATO EU members to sign up. And I think the Russian elite are going to be seriously considering ways to get rid of him.
 
"The Russians have been very gentle, the Russians were clear they want a neutral Ukraine"
"Russians are not seizing territory, they are just destroying forces, thats their focus"

How is Fox able to air this propaganda appointed by BUNKER BOY

 
I lean slightly differently. I think the sanctions will probably have a different effect personally. I've been on the donbas region is the entire goal the whole time still am actually.

But I think with these sanctions putin may be forced to push harder as a means of getting to the negotiating table with a semblance of power.
If Donbas and Luhansk was his goal why not go the Crimea route? Little green men moving in? Because there is some actual grievances in those areas. Ukraine has been bombing it's own people since 2014, that's a fact, no matter how you spin the political differences. But turning Ukranian cities into rubble? That will turn even pro-Russian Ukranians against him. Just look at what's going on in the "liberated" eastern cities now. He has ruined all goodwill outside of the People's republics. It's just a huge blunder that Russia now can't get out of. He expected them to fold quickly and they didn't.
 
If Donbas and Luhansk was his goal why not go the Crimea route?
Well, in controlled by separatists areas in Donbas these rebels are hoping Putin to come in during long years, they for sure will be happy to join Russia.
However Putin didn't had took areas controlled by rebels.
Putin just is sitting and watching.
 
Col Macgregor "I think Zelensky is a puppet"



Mac

“Oh I think Zelensky is a puppet & he is putting huge numbers of his own population at unnecessary risk… and quite frankly what comes out of Ukraine is debunked as lies within 24-48 hours” Retired US Army colonel Douglas MacGregor on Fox News

[/QUO]


Col Macgregor "I think Zelensky is a puppet"



“Oh I think Zelensky is a puppet & he is putting huge numbers of his own population at unnecessary risk… and quite frankly what comes out of Ukraine is debunked as lies within 24-48 hours” Retired US Army colonel Douglas MacGregor on Fox News


He’s been making the rounds on the usual outlets for a while now. He gets paid to make contrarian and controversial statements. I’m sure he believes some of what he says, but I think there is some disingenuousness. This is the guy that suggested deploying the military to the US border and treating immigrants as invaders and shooting them on sight; then he says that the Ukrainians should lay down arms and let Russia take what they will. He’s got a hard-on for Putin and appears to be a revisionist Russo-phile.

He’s ridiculous, hence why he couldn’t get an appointment even in the Trump administration. I kinda just chalk him up to that odd and repugnant segment of the Republican party that are really just authoritarians yearning for fascism. I won’t be surprised if we find out he is a Dominionist as well; he’s already all but let on he is a white separatist.
 
"The Russians have been very gentle, the Russians were clear they want a neutral Ukraine"
"Russians are not seizing territory, they are just destroying forces, thats their focus"

How is Fox able to air this propaganda appointed by BUNKER BOY


What a fucking anti freedom cuck.
 
It was not explicitly said, but plenty of US and EU officials certainly made it appear as if they were ready to help if things escelate. They gave him this false convidence and riled him and the Ukrainians up only to realise that nobody is stepping in. Hence the panic video up here lol
Nobody was under the impression that NATO would step in to directly defend Ukraine. NATO had troops in Ukraine as a deterrent to Russian aggression and to train the Ukrainian military to defend themselves in a situation such as this.
 
You mean with the sanctions?

yes. The media is like "OMG we are freezing their assets, taking their toys and putting on the fiercest sanctions in history".

First, Biden only put on sanctions after it started, despite also saying they know sanctions take months to be effective. So why did he push to filibuster them in early January as they were getting this intel, or throughout the entire build up.

Second, both France and Germany waited until the last minute to sanction them as well, only doing it cause we pressured them.

Bottom line is sanctions won't stop this inevitable outcome.

Meanwhile the headlines are "Wow, Russia says these sanctions are an act of war, blah blah"... meanwhile we are still buying their oil, in the dollar, and buying/investing in their assets, and also letting redistribution of wealth among their own country. These sanctions only hurt the normal civilian. Even if an oligarch loses a huge yacht, they are making more in oil, meanwhile buying up assets in their own country, along with banks internations banks also getting in on that actions. Meanwhile, they are all hedging the turbulant markets.

Again, the west said they are not getting involved, it is only a matter of time before this is over. The only people paying the price are Ukrainians and Russian civilians, along with the same serf/civilian class around the world, which is why they are saying this conflict is causing inflation around the world.

Meanwhile, all the the companies can make money off oil being $150 a barrel (not there yet but easily could get there), the military industrial complex going to build up in the after math of this, all the banks and financial institutions making. And after making money off the oil spike, the same people are then are going to say we need to give a bunch of tax payer money to build alternatives to oil.

Oh, speaking of oil, why is the same media trying to now pump of Liz Cheney as the next rival to Trump? Her and Hillary, as the Clintons role out their globali initiative again? It is because regardless of who wins, the Cheneys or Clintons, it is the same global, beuracratic establishment, in step with the oligarchs, who don't care if young russian soldiers or Ukrainian resistance die. They just hyping this up to be WW3, while further expanding the wealth gap and pushing people into not being able to buy houses, car, energy, groceries they want.

edit: and half the world (China, India, Iran, Pakistan, OPEC) already say the won't sanction Russia and will go ahead with business as usual.

Why?
Maybe better is to die with honor rather than slowly from starving as Kremlin's slaves?

Kremlin hoped that they will welcome russian military and hope on mercy from occupants.

Now best thing already is achieved: Russia had lost this game.
World will push Russia till state treasury default, very high unemployment %, most likely on food stamps.

Then Kremlin will have no escape: only to be appendix for China as cheap wood, oil and natural gas suppliers for prices dictated by China.

To make this happen faster, even China might implement sanctions on Russia and lift when Russia will agree with everything China will demand.


Putin and oligarchs anyway will not care: they does have gold, diamonds, mortgage, businesses and dollars. They will live with the same comfort level like nothing had happened.

except Russia is not going to default and none of that is going to happen. That is all wishful thinking at the expense of Ukranian and Russian serfs, who are just fodder to the globalist oligarchs that are currently investing in Russia, knowing this will not happen.
 
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I thought so as well but these sanctions are really tough, who knows how much pain its putting the Russians in right now. Maybe if he and his military can hold out for a dozen weeks or so they can avoid conceding to Putin's most egregious demands. Remember Putin wants to "de-militarize" Ukraine so if Zelensky can at least manage to save his military it could be a decent silver-lining even if he loses border territories.

If the Ukrainian military collapses then I say its time to throw in the towel.

Time favors the Russians

The weaker Ukraine is, the lower their negotiating power

You want to negotiate from a position of strength, not desperation..game theory 101
 
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