What does The War Room consist of mostly?

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What in the fuck are you talking about? No one says that, lol. I bet there are cultural differences between you and me btw (I am Irish, German and Polish), just based on where we grew up. I am willing to bet that I relate more to the black kids I grew up with then you.
Just for fun, what are the "serious cultural differences" you are referring to? This should be good.

Why do you act like all liberals think like you?


Gee I may not think that way so that means everyone must not think that way.

I love it, because you don't agree with me, you have to be more black or relate to blacks more than me lol?


Go ahead and show me how much more relatable you are to blacks than I am, this should be fascinating!!!!


KPT, you got your honorary black card, why don't you go ahead and show us, so us white folk can better relate to blacks.

also I would hope that you relate to the black kids you grew up with more than me, seeing as I have never meet the black kids you grew up with.

I also noticed that you had to go back to black people THAT YOU GREW UP WITH, what you don't have any black friends nowadays to relate to?
 
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Why do you act like all liberals think like you?


Gee I may not think that way so that means everyone must not think that way.

I love it, because you don't agree with me, you have to be more black or relate to blacks more than me lol?


Go ahead and show me how much more relatable you are to blacks than I am, this should be fascinating!!!!


KPT, you got your honorary black card, why don't you go ahead and show us, so us white folk can better relate to blacks.

also I would hope that you relate to the black kids you grew up with more than me, seeing as I have never meet the black kids you grew up with.

I also noticed that you had to go back to black people THAT YOU GREW UP WITH, what you don't have any black friends nowadays to relate to?

Whoosh.
 
derp, he tried the old, I bet I relate better to blacks than you?

Derp, he didn't. You said that there are serious cultural differences (not specifying what you meant, but implying that you meant between blacks and whites) and that liberals don't want to admit that (?). He said, rightly, that no one denies that cultural differences exist, and gave an example. He then noted that blacks from his neighborhood were likely going to be more similar culturally to him than you are (that is, that race is a stupid basis for thinking there are going to be cultural differences--region, religion, nationality, etc. are what really influence that). I'm sure he'd also grant that blacks in your neighborhood are more similar culturally to you than he is. And you *completely* missed the point and started a totally unrelated rant. Funny stuff.

based on what? why would he say that. He also had to go all the way back to childhood to show that he could relate to blacks.

LOL!
 
Thanks for clarifying. Your posts are usually very reasonable and well-thought, so I'm glad that you identify right of center: it provides balance to the forum and helps ward off this progressively creeping feeling left-versus-right is moving towards being informed-versus-stubborn on a lot of issues.

But, anyways, since you mentioned it, how do you prefer economic relief be administered so as to circumvent government waste?

It's a really broad concept and my ideas have certainly evolved over time. Here's what I think. Our current welfare system is flawed on several levels.

The most egregious is that the way we phase out welfare benefits creates an economic point where staying on welfare is the more logical decision in terms of how you spend your time. Most people who work value their free time. They are constantly balancing work vs. free time. There is a point where most people won't work more hours because the gain in income doesn't offset the loss of time. For people on welfare, it's the same balancing act. Except people on welfare are going from, presumably very few working hours to near full-time working hours and the increase in income doesn't always balance. That needs to change - probably with a change to how we phase out benefits.

The other problem is that our current system is exclusionary. The people who pay for the system are mostly excluded from using it. This creates the potential for resentment. That resentment leads some payers to see greater economic value is reducing the system in it's entirety rather than altering the system to produce better outcomes. Again, something that needs to change. Again, probably with some focus on how we phase out access to benefits.

Lastly, there's a significant amount of overlap between federal programs and between federal and state programs. That's mostly an overhead issue but it's also an issue where access to certain types of benefits can be accessed under one criteria but denied under another. Reducing the variety of programs but making the remaining programs more encompassing is probably the way to go.

All of that is separate from the issues of welfare abuse. Which isn't really about the stereotypical welfare queen and probably a bigger issue on the disabilities, social security and medical side of things.

My ideas aren't particularly unique but I've come to really like the idea of a guaranteed post-tax income.
 
This is true to an extent but you are bordering on, if you have never been president, then don't talk about what he is doing is right or wrong.

I lived in a black dominated city for most my life, went to black dominated schools, churches, parks, etc then went Into the Air Force, went to multiple states and overseas including Iraq. I have worked and still do in black dominated areas. I have a lot more experience with minorities. I grew up and have spent most of my 34 years around them. I have talked politically and religiously to 100's if not thousands of people in my time. It is interesting what I hear and I can freely admit that there are serious cultural differences. For what ever reason some liberals don't want to admit that. They have this idea that we are all the same. Yea we are all the same as in we are all human and go through shit, but a lot of our everyday life is totally different. Not saying one is better than the other, it just is what it is. My stepmother who helped raise me (RIP) was black and my dads girlfriend now is black. I end up discussing minority issues or situations on here a lot because that is my life.

Take it easy man, see you around.

What in the fuck are you talking about? No one says that, lol. I bet there are cultural differences between you and me btw (I am Irish, German and Polish), just based on where we grew up. I am willing to bet that I relate more to the black kids I grew up with then you.

Just for fun, what are the "serious cultural differences" you are referring to? This should be good.

Derp, he didn't. You said that there are serious cultural differences (not specifying what you meant, but implying that you meant between blacks and whites) and that liberals don't want to admit that (?). He said, rightly, that no one denies that cultural differences exist, and gave an example. He then noted that blacks from his neighborhood were likely going to be more similar culturally to him than you are (that is, that race is a stupid basis for thinking there are going to be cultural differences--region, religion, nationality, etc. are what really influence that). I'm sure he'd also grant that blacks in your neighborhood are more similar culturally to you than he is. And you *completely* missed the point and started a totally unrelated rant. Funny stuff.



LOL!

DERP

I say there are racially cultural differences but some libs don't want to believe it

KPT then say no ones believes that there aren't racially cultural differences

JVS- race is a silly thing to think that there are cultural differences?


Which one is it? That everyone knows there are racially cultural differences or your comment that it is silly to think it.

KPT seems to think everyone knows it, while you seem to think it is silly to think that or know it?

You just proved my point while trying to take up for him
 
DERP

I say there are racially cultural differences but some libs don't want to believe it

KPT then say no ones believes that there aren't racially cultural differences

JVS- race is a silly thing to think that there are cultural differences?


Which one is it? That everyone knows there are racially cultural differences or your comment that it is silly to think it.

KPT seems to think everyone knows it, while you seem to think it is silly to think that or know it?

You just proved my point while trying to take up for him

Cultural differences are real, but there isn't "black culture" and "white culture." Jesus, is this really hard for you to understand?
 
It's a really broad concept and my ideas have certainly evolved over time. Here's what I think. Our current welfare system is flawed on several levels.

The most egregious is that the way we phase out welfare benefits creates an economic point where staying on welfare is the more logical decision in terms of how you spend your time. Most people who work value their free time. They are constantly balancing work vs. free time. There is a point where most people won't work more hours because the gain in income doesn't offset the loss of time. For people on welfare, it's the same balancing act. Except people on welfare are going from, presumably very few working hours to near full-time working hours and the increase in income doesn't always balance. That needs to change - probably with a change to how we phase out benefits.

The other problem is that our current system is exclusionary. The people who pay for the system are mostly excluded from using it. This creates the potential for resentment. That resentment leads some payers to see greater economic value is reducing the system in it's entirety rather than altering the system to produce better outcomes. Again, something that needs to change. Again, probably with some focus on how we phase out access to benefits.

Lastly, there's a significant amount of overlap between federal programs and between federal and state programs. That's mostly an overhead issue but it's also an issue where access to certain types of benefits can be accessed under one criteria but denied under another. Reducing the variety of programs but making the remaining programs more encompassing is probably the way to go.

All of that is separate from the issues of welfare abuse. Which isn't really about the stereotypical welfare queen and probably a bigger issue on the disabilities, social security and medical side of things.

My ideas aren't particularly unique but I've come to really like the idea of a guaranteed post-tax income.

Can you go more into this? How much, guaranteed for workers or all people, etc
 
DERP

I say there are racially cultural differences but some libs don't want to believe it

KPT then say no ones believes that there aren't racially cultural differences

JVS- race is a silly thing to think that there are cultural differences?


Which one is it? That everyone knows there are racially cultural differences or your comment that it is silly to think it.

KPT seems to think everyone knows it, while you seem to think it is silly to think that or know it?

You just proved my point while trying to take up for him

You still misunderstood what kpt said. There are 2 separate points in his comment.

1) Your comment about "if you haven't been president you can't comment on what he's doing." He said that no one says that.

2) You said there are serious cultural differences between blacks and whites and the liberals won't admit that. He said that there are probably cultural differences between the two of you and, here is where I'm interpreting his comments, it has nothing to with race. He goes on to state that he is more culturally attuned to the black kids he grew up with compared to how culturally attuned he is to you. Not that he is more attuned to black culture than you but that the black kids he grew up share his culture and you, presumably white, don't. Thus invalidating your claim that race is what drives the cultural differences and not environmental factors.

He then asked for examples of the serious cultural differences you think exist between blacks and whites.
 
Can you go more into this? How much, guaranteed for workers or all people, etc

For all adults but I don't have an amount yet. It's complicated because it requires me to have a greater grasp on how this country generates revenue than I have. Plus it would require significant changes to lots of other things.
 
It's a really broad concept and my ideas have certainly evolved over time. Here's what I think. Our current welfare system is flawed on several levels.

The most egregious is that the way we phase out welfare benefits creates an economic point where staying on welfare is the more logical decision in terms of how you spend your time. Most people who work value their free time. They are constantly balancing work vs. free time. There is a point where most people won't work more hours because the gain in income doesn't offset the loss of time. For people on welfare, it's the same balancing act. Except people on welfare are going from, presumably very few working hours to near full-time working hours and the increase in income doesn't always balance. That needs to change - probably with a change to how we phase out benefits.

The other problem is that our current system is exclusionary. The people who pay for the system are mostly excluded from using it. This creates the potential for resentment. That resentment leads some payers to see greater economic value is reducing the system in it's entirety rather than altering the system to produce better outcomes. Again, something that needs to change. Again, probably with some focus on how we phase out access to benefits.

Lastly, there's a significant amount of overlap between federal programs and between federal and state programs. That's mostly an overhead issue but it's also an issue where access to certain types of benefits can be accessed under one criteria but denied under another. Reducing the variety of programs but making the remaining programs more encompassing is probably the way to go.

All of that is separate from the issues of welfare abuse. Which isn't really about the stereotypical welfare queen and probably a bigger issue on the disabilities, social security and medical side of things.

My ideas aren't particularly unique but I've come to really like the idea of a guaranteed post-tax income.

I don't have a problem with any of the complaints you cited. I'm not sure I would identify those preferences as being inherently conservative, though. Maybe conservative relative to the way in which welfare policies are currently trending/building, but nonetheless. Thanks for the insight.
 
Why do you act like all liberals think like you?


Gee I may not think that way so that means everyone must not think that way.

I love it, because you don't agree with me, you have to be more black or relate to blacks more than me lol?


Go ahead and show me how much more relatable you are to blacks than I am, this should be fascinating!!!!


KPT, you got your honorary black card, why don't you go ahead and show us, so us white folk can better relate to blacks.

also I would hope that you relate to the black kids you grew up with more than me, seeing as I have never meet the black kids you grew up with.

I also noticed that you had to go back to black people THAT YOU GREW UP WITH, what you don't have any black friends nowadays to relate to?


Lol!

As Jack says in the next post, I am saying there are cultural differences that have nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with the "honorary black card". This is funny man, I can't even get upset at a post so filled with nonsense.

I am saying that I relate more with the black kids I grew up with then white southerners, for example. Jesus man.
 
Lol!

As Jack says in the next post, I am saying there are cultural differences that have nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with the "honorary black card". This is funny man, I can't even get upset at a post so filled with nonsense.

I am saying that I relate more with the black kids I grew up with then white southerners, for example. Jesus man.

I think it was the phrasing of your post a couple pages back that threw a wrench in things. It could either be read to mean that you identify more with blacks than you identify with him or that you are able to identify with blacks better than he can. The whole "police kill man with ax" thing.
 
I don't have a problem with any of the complaints you cited. I'm not sure I would identify those preferences as being inherently conservative, though. Maybe conservative relative to the way in which welfare policies are currently trending/building, but nonetheless. Thanks for the insight.

That's the thing, I don't think welfare is inherently conservative or liberal. I think most decent human beings want to look out for the poor. Where you start seeing conservative vs. liberal disagreements is in how government achieves those results.

But even those disagreements get waylaid by the intrusion of racial stereotypes into the discussion. How often has a discussion about welfare reform transformed into a discussion about "urban culture" and "black culture" and "hip hop culture"? When on a pure numbers basis we should be equally discussing "rural culture" and "white culture" and "country music culture". Or "old people culture".

It's what I was referring to when I said people take racial prejudices and then try to call them conservative principles. So you end up with people who think the system needs to be reformed stuck either arguing alongside prejudices you don't share or arguing alongside reforms you don't agree with.

But to put it in a purely conservative phrasing: I think the welfare system needs to be shrunk and there's too much waste. Not necessarily the economic value of the benefits received but definitely the system itself.
 
What in the fuck are you talking about? No one says that, lol. I bet there are cultural differences between you and me btw (I am Irish, German and Polish), just based on where we grew up. I am willing to bet that I relate more to the black kids I grew up with then you.

Just for fun, what are the "serious cultural differences" you are referring to? This should be good.

You still misunderstood what kpt said. There are 2 separate points in his comment.

1) Your comment about "if you haven't been president you can't comment on what he's doing." He said that no one says that.

2) You said there are serious cultural differences between blacks and whites and the liberals won't admit that. He said that there are probably cultural differences between the two of you and, here is where I'm interpreting his comments, it has nothing to with race. He goes on to state that he is more culturally attuned to the black kids he grew up with compared to how culturally attuned he is to you. Not that he is more attuned to black culture than you but that the black kids he grew up share his culture and you, presumably white, don't. Thus invalidating your claim that race is what drives the cultural differences and not environmental factors.

He then asked for examples of the serious cultural differences you think exist between blacks and whites.

1. Go back and look at what part of my statement KPT quoted. He left out the presidential stuff and only quoted the cultural differences part. He specifically said no ones disagrees that there are cultural differences.

2. Of course being born black doesn't make you genetically predisposed to listen to rap or jazz or soul, or to have a fade or dreds, etc. But being born in a environment that is dominated by blacks will more than likely lead you to that culture.

I haven't seen to many black dudes from the ghetto wearing tapout tshirts, listening to country music and driving supped up ford f150's. I also haven't seen Very many educated blacks listening to Michael buble or guns and roses. Of course there are outliers but for the most part we can classify/stereotype certain activities as black white etc.

If You didn't know if I was white or black but I told you I was going to a MOS Def concert and then was going to see a tyler Perry movie and then would end up at a club that played mainly rap music, what race would you think I am?

In all the places I have worked there is a difference in the basic shit that gets talked about between the races (moreso the women than men, men have a lot of sports in common). I sit around and I listen to the black women I work with talk about the shows love and hiphop, basketball wives, black ink crew, 106 and park, etc. I never hear the white women talk about that. I hear the latest gossip on rappers. ETC.

There is some small crossovers but I never see the black and white women sit around talking about the same shit. The black dudes and white dudes do a little more when sports are mentioned but as soon as rap, clubs, or anything else comes up the guys drift apart.

When I say racial differences I am not meaning it in the you are born to like rock and roll type situation, I am more meaning it in the you will more than likely have different cultural or social choices of shit to talk about, read about, entertain yourself if born into certain environments (exclusing outliers of course).

Even if people don' t like it there is just certain things that we assign to different races (in the simplistic meaning of the word, white black Mexican/latino).

There is even social differences in beliefs, Whites tend to have a decent or positive view of cops, blacks not so much. Now I am speaking from talking and asking and going in depth with probably 500 black women and 300 black dudes in all walks of life from movie theater cashier when I was younger to the military to the medical lab I work in now.

The ray rice issue was a big difference. The white women I talked to said that it was horrible and it should never have happened. Most of the black women said that she probably deserved it and that it is not uncommon for that shit to happen all the time. I probably asked 50 black women if they had ever hit a man, 90% said yes. I asked if they had ever been hit by a man, again 90% said yes. The white women were closer to 25%. When we talk about relationships, the majority of black women I spoke to EXPECT to be cheated on. They figure the guy they are with now has or is cheating on them. The white women said hell or they don't expect to be cheated on, even if they admit that they have in the past or might be currently getting cheated on.

A lot of the black men and women I talked to said that their parents never really pushed education--- YOU GOTTA REMEMBER I AM TALKING TO SCIENCE DEGREED PEOPLE HERE AS WELL.

sorry for rambling or typos, I am trying to respond and watch 2 children at the same time, LOL
 
That's the thing, I don't think welfare is inherently conservative or liberal. I think most decent human beings want to look out for the poor. Where you start seeing conservative vs. liberal disagreements is in how government achieves those results.

But even those disagreements get waylaid by the intrusion of racial stereotypes into the discussion. How often has a discussion about welfare reform transformed into a discussion about "urban culture" and "black culture" and "hip hop culture"? When on a pure numbers basis we should be equally discussing "rural culture" and "white culture" and "country music culture". Or "old people culture".

It's what I was referring to when I said people take racial prejudices and then try to call them conservative principles. So you end up with people who think the system needs to be reformed stuck either arguing alongside prejudices you don't share or arguing alongside reforms you don't agree with.

But to put it in a purely conservative phrasing: I think the welfare system needs to be shrunk and there's too much waste. Not necessarily the economic value of the benefits received but definitely the system itself.

I may be biased here because I am conservative but I think a lot of this problem has come from the liberals. Whenever welfare reform comes up, the first thing out of their mouth is that it will unfairly affect blacks and other minorities. You never hear them say, hey more whites are on welfare, this is gonna hurt white people. No one gives a shit if it hurts white people (and that is not meant to be taken as a woo is me, poor little white people way), but the second you mention that it might hurt minorities, that is supposed to be the end of the conversation.

Yes there are some conservatives that rail on the ghetto queens, hell I am one of them because I live in a majority black town but I have always admitted that the same thing is going on in whitey Whitesville in IOWA.

The dems have made the discussion of welfare turn into a race issue.
 
But even those disagreements get waylaid by the intrusion of racial stereotypes into the discussion. How often has a discussion about welfare reform transformed into a discussion about "urban culture" and "black culture" and "hip hop culture"? When on a pure numbers basis we should be equally discussing "rural culture" and "white culture" and "country music culture". Or "old people culture".

That's a result of Republican marketing. You rarely see conservatism defended on its intellectual merits (such as they are) anymore. It's just appeals to base emotions, and the party has its own alternative media structure that simply pretends that uncomfortable facts don't exist. That's what I mean when I say the conservative movement is intellectually dead.
 
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