Alternate timeline: if Shogun, Crocop, Wanderlei Silva never went to the UFC.

[moreorless87]

werdum spent a long time working on his striking with cro cop, back in pride he was very much just a bjj guy. fedor now is the same old fedor he ever was

You shoot down your own argument, Werdum in Pride had actually worked with Crocop's team for several years and was far from the striking novice current drones hype.

The difference is that Werdum back then was younger and more agile focused on defence standing and timing takedowns to use his BJJ. Older Werdum shifted to more offencive striking as he has less ability to get good opponents down.

Unfortunately the "nobody declines there just exposed by evolution" fantasy the UFC have sold you is whats killing the sport, no need to actually go out and get quality talent involved if you think you can just play to a minority who will believe anyone you hype is "the best ever". The problem they have though is that outside of the hardcore brand fans you get on Sherdog not many other people buy this, hence interest in divisions like HW and LHW is dying out as quality declines.

 

[Lord Grey]

Cro Cop would have won the HW title, but Wand would get mauled by UFC wrestlers. Both Couture and Ortiz beat any version of Wand inside the octagon, via takedowns.

Shogun in his prime was always worse than Wand. All the stories are out now -- they fought in the gym and Wand wins. Prime Shogun loses to prime Liddell in the UFC.

Prime Shogun did pretty well against prime Rampage who handled prime Liddell. Which isn't to say Liddell couldn't have beaten Shogun, Liddell was obviously in the mix at the top of LHW along with Rampage, Wand, Shogun, Couture, and Ortiz. But I'd have put money on Shogun.

 

[Aluminati]

Brainwash has been trolling since 2012 and people are still taking the bait

Have a like for literally everything from your AV, sig, and last, but not least, pointing out the obvious troll being obvious. Keep up the good work.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Prime Shogun did pretty well against prime Rampage who handled prime Liddell. Which isn't to say Liddell couldn't have beaten Shogun, Liddell was obviously in the mix at the top of LHW along with Rampage, Wand, Shogun, Couture, and Ortiz. But I'd have put money on Shogun.

MMA math doesn't work because styles make fights. And Rampage is one of those weird fighters that has up and down performances.

I'd bet on 2004-2006 Couture, Liddell, and Ortiz to beat Wand. I could see Shogun beating Ortiz bases on styles, but not the other 2. Rampage was the best LHW when he was focused and healthy.

 

[Lord Grey]

MMA math doesn't work because styles make fights. And Rampage is one of those weird fighters that has up and down performances.

I'd bet on 2004-2006 Couture, Liddell, and Ortiz to beat Wand. I could see Shogun beating Ortiz bases on styles, but not the other 2. Rampage was the best LHW when he was focused and healthy.

I agree that MMath doesn't always work and that styles make fights....as do rule sets for that matter.

With that in mind,
I'd bet on Couture to beat Wand, but I'd bet on Wand to beat Ortiz in a rematch (particularly in a ring) . . . and I think Wand-Liddell is even.
I'd pick Shogun over Liddell and Ortiz and maybe even money against Couture.
I'd pick Jackson over all three of the UFC top LHWs, but favour Wand and Shogun (since they both did beat him back then).

What a group of LHWs we had back then, eh? Throw in Henderson, Arona, Overeem, L'il Nog, and there are so many exciting match ups.

 

[tru3f4n]

Maybe if you spent more time reading and less time in Sherdog your posts would be better written.

I read all the time and most if not all my post looks like they are from some backwoods illiterate fuck.

 

[IVovchanchyn]

See join date? Like function been around since..?

Think, then write.

well i added to your average

 

[jeskola]

People would have regarded them as highly as Fedor if they never did. They could of stayed in Japan fighting Japanese cans and over the hill UFC fighters and be revered as GOATS.

Before they came to the UFC.
"Shogun is going to destroy Forrest Griffin. He's MWGP champion, young phenom!"
"Wanderlei Silva is going to go berserker mode on Chuck Liddell"
"Crocop is going to run through the heavyweight division. Everyone going to the cemetery"
Rampage, Gomi, Nogueira, Kid Yamamoto. All of them were "superior" to UFC fighters. And we all found out there's a difference between fighting cans and fighting the best fighters in the world.

People say Fedor not joining the UFC is due to terrible management. If anything, Fedor had the greatest management ever. His whole legacy as the "GOAT" was held on to by a very thin thread pulled by good management.

How many Strikeforce champions, Bellator champions, WSOF champions who were thought as the one who can beat current UFC Champion X came to the UFC and never escaped the middle of the pack.

Alternate timeline: If Fedor had joined the UFC. I am sure Fedor is different. Of course if he had joined the UFC he would of destroyed everyone.

amen brother. Shogun is 9-9 in the UFC dating back to Age 25 (pretty much the beginning of "Prime" athelete age).

He is just another in a long, long line of overhyped can crushers from Pride.

 

[wake_me]

my fav what-if timeline is 'what if wanderlei beat tito and stayed in ufc and tito went to pride'

 

[tru3f4n]

People would have regarded them as highly as Fedor if they never did. They could of stayed in Japan fighting Japanese cans and over the hill UFC fighters and be revered as GOATS.

Before they came to the UFC.
"Shogun is going to destroy Forrest Griffin. He's MWGP champion, young phenom!"
"Wanderlei Silva is going to go berserker mode on Chuck Liddell"
"Crocop is going to run through the heavyweight division. Everyone going to the cemetery"
Rampage, Gomi, Nogueira, Kid Yamamoto. All of them were "superior" to UFC fighters. And we all found out there's a difference between fighting cans and fighting the best fighters in the world.

People say Fedor not joining the UFC is due to terrible management. If anything, Fedor had the greatest management ever. His whole legacy as the "GOAT" was held on to by a very thin thread pulled by good management.

How many Strikeforce champions, Bellator champions, WSOF champions who were thought as the one who can beat current UFC Champion X came to the UFC and never escaped the middle of the pack.

Alternate timeline: If Fedor had joined the UFC. I am sure Fedor is different. Of course if he had joined the UFC he would of destroyed everyone.

you're being an ass and not taking into account Shogun downfall was due to being injury prone and lazy. Wanderlei had one foot outside the door when he finally cameback to the UFC. Mirko just like Wand was already showing his age once he moved over. Gomi was in the same boat as Wand and a bit of Shogun his fights in Sengoku showed that. Kid was never the same after trying to make the Japanese wrestling team he pissed away his prime years trying to make his dad happy and was well passed it by the time the UFC brought in 135 & 145. Other then Rampage and Hendo most the fighters who made their names in Japan was already slowing down by the time they got into the UFC.

 

[gono btw]

It's true though. Top guys in Pride were very active. You can't expect to have them fight top competition all the time if they fight that frequently. Pride knew how to build up fighters way better than UFC ever did.

You have to be realistic: a new org has to satisfy its local market 1st,
and to build a new roster with local fighters. Japanese fighters would only progress if they fought the elite too.