Canelo Alvarez suspended six months for positive drug tests for clenbuterol

[Goatenstein]

Canelo is a PED cheat. That is a fact. Nuthuggers can cry and try to believe silly cow stories.

 

[El Fernas]

He’s claiming tainted meat. How the hell is that any different than Jones claiming tainted dick pills?? Give me a break.

Apparently it happens, Canelo isnt the first, while Jones he is, Moreno tested positive for the same while competing for the UFC, got no suspension, seems like other boxers in different AC's have been able to fight after testing positive (at similar levels) for the same same substance, its no new thing with Mexico meat.

 

[Final Say]

shouldnt have been banned at all

and almost certainly wouldnt have been under usada

Why? Because of tainted meat?

So you can take a trip to Mexico and be exonerated of any clenbuterol positives that pop up in your piss?

USADA let Yoel off, they're fallible

 

[Phisher]

Nobody is buying the tainted meat bullshit excuse. A lot of Mexicans fighters are using this as an excuse. GGG himself called him out for that bullshit.

I don't give a shit what GGG and his trainer say. He's not a fucking doctor or a scientist the last time that I checked.

There was a link to a news story in that post showing that WADA exonerated the Mexican soccer team after they popped and validated the tainted meat story.

Again. This is why I don't support testing anymore. People just believe whatever the fuck they want to. Obviously, doping is widespread, but the testing system is flawed as fuck.

False positives are a reality. Athletes test positive for all sorts of benign shit that has nothing to do with doping. There was case where a gymnast tested positive for drinking tap water.

https://www.usada.org/kristen-shaldybin-accepts-finding-of-no-fault-for-anti-doping-rule-violation/

 

[JayE]

Nobody is buying the tainted meat bullshit excuse. A lot of Mexicans fighters are using this as an excuse. GGG himself called him out for that bullshit.

I'm not claiming that Canelo didn't dope (I think it's likely that he intentionally did dope), but there is clear precedent (including with UFC fighters dealing with USADA) of fighters getting off without sanction in very similar situations to Canelo. The NSAC's decision is largely arbitrary and has likely only come about because of intense public pressure, but all it has done is kick the rematch down the road to September (which is clearly the intention and what everyone involved, Golovkin and co. included, wants).

 

[Phisher]

I've heard of the contaminated meat story. I've heard this all before. I'm sorry to break it to you, but 'contaminated meat' is not a valid excuse. In fact, it's total bullshit. If Mexico has a problem with it and we know this, its even less valid.

Again, I truly feel sorry for anybody who buys any of this stuff.

WADA buys it, but I guess that "Final Say" on Sherdog knows more about doping than they do.

http://www.velonews.com/2011/10/new...ol-case-against-mexican-soccer-players_195167

 

[Final Say]

I don't give a shit what GGG and his trainer say. He's not a fucking doctor or a scientist the last time that I checked.

There was a link to a news story in that post showing that WADA exonerated the Mexican soccer team after they popped and validated the tainted meat story.

Again. This is why I don't support testing anymore. People just believe whatever the fuck they want to. Obviously, doping is widespread, but the testing system is flawed as fuck.

False positives are a reality. Athletes test positive for all sorts of benign shit that has nothing to do with doping. There was case where a gymnast tested positive for drinking tap water.

https://www.usada.org/kristen-shaldybin-accepts-finding-of-no-fault-for-anti-doping-rule-violation/

Is it more likely that all these world class athletes are being contaminated due to eating tainted meat? Or that they're on PEDs? You decide for yourself

 

[TrevorLahey]

I'd rather see Gennady fight Billy Joe Saunders anyway, although it won't sell much in North America, I'm sure it would be huge in Europe and the UK.

 

[JayE]

Is it more likely that all these world class athletes are being contaminated due to eating tainted meat? Or that they're on PEDs? You decide for yourself

There are hundreds of examples of athletes testing positive for clenbuterol (or very similar substances) when they were tested immediately after ingesting meat in Mexico, China, or other countries which don't have strict regulations for what cattle can ingest. Many or even most could have been doping intentionally or been using other substances, but if their positive can be shown to be caused by tainted meat beyond a reasonable doubt, then the WADA precedent has tended to be either considerable clemency or outright exoneration.

 

[Phisher]

Is it more likely that all these world class athletes are being contaminated due to eating tainted meat? Or that they're on PEDs? You decide for yourself

Right. You know better that the international anti-doping agency that's responsible for administering drug testing in most major sports around the world.

I've to ask you: if you don't believe the results of their investigation that exonerated the soccer players, then why do you take the results of the tests seriously at all?

 

[Phisher]

There are hundreds of examples of athletes testing positive for clenbuterol (or very similar substances) when they were tested immediately after ingesting meat in Mexico, China, or other countries which don't have strict regulations for what cattle can ingest. Many or even most could have been doping intentionally or been using other substances, but if their positive can be shown to be caused by tainted meat beyond a reasonable doubt, then the WADA precedent has tended to be either considerable clemency or outright exoneration.

The NFL specifically issued a warning to players about eating meat in China and Mexico a couple of years ago due to widespread contamination.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...o-much-meat-mexico-china-result-positive-test

I guess that they're in on the scam too.

 

[JayE]

I'd rather see Gennady fight Billy Joe Saunders anyway, although it won't sell much in North America, I'm sure it would be huge in Europe and the UK.

It wouldn't really be huge. Saunders doesn't have a considerable following in the UK and it's not a particularly interesting fight.

 

[Final Say]

Right. You know better that the international anti-doping agency that's responsible for administering drug testing in most major sports around the world.

I've to ask you: if you don't believe the results of their investigation that exonerated the soccer players, then why do you take the results of the tests seriously at all?

The tests seem to be working. It's what happens afterward that is flawed.

Again, the onus is on the athlete. That's the end of the discussion. If Mexico is known to have this problem, then the excuse becomes even less valid.

As it stands, any athlete can take a trip to Mexico, test positive and be let off the hook by you and WADA, it seems.

There are hundreds of examples of athletes testing positive for clenbuterol (or very similar substances) when they were tested immediately after ingesting meat in Mexico, China, or other countries which don't have strict regulations for what cattle can ingest. Many or even most could have been doping intentionally or been using other substances, but if their positive can be shown to be caused by tainted meat beyond a reasonable doubt, then the WADA precedent has tended to be either considerable clemency or outright exoneration.

i guess we have different definitions of reasonable doubt. The other case that comes to mind is Yoel Romero. He didn't prove anything, he didn't give us any reasonable doubt. But USADA let him off anyway without proof of anything, not even any proof Yoel used the supplement that was supposedly tainted. They saw that a supplement existed that contained the same substance he tested positive for. All Yoel had to do was claim he was using the supplement and they let him off.

And if I'm wrong on that please let me know and I will eat the crow.

But what is more likely...?

 

[Phisher]

The tests seem to be working. It's what happens afterward that is flawed.

Again, the onus is on the athlete. That's the end of the discussion. If Mexico is known to have this problem, then the excuse becomes even less valid.

As it stands, any athlete can take a trip to Mexico, test positive and be let off the hook by you and WADA, it seems.

So you're saying that there's no such thing as a false positive despite the fact that the actual doctors and scientists who work for anti-doping agencies recognize their existence and specifically have an appeals and exoneration policy to deal with false positives?

 

[JayE]

The tests seem to be working. It's what happens afterward that is flawed.

Again, the onus is on the athlete. That's the end of the discussion. If Mexico is known to have this problem, then the excuse becomes even less valid.

As it stands, any athlete can take a trip to Mexico, test positive and be let off the hook by you and WADA, it seems.

i guess we have different definitions of reasonable doubt. The other case that comes to mind is Yoel Romero. He didn't prove anything, he didn't give us any reasonable doubt. But USADA let him off anyway without proof of anything, not even any proof Yoel used the supplement that was supposedly tainted. They saw that a supplement existed that contained the same substance he tested positive for. All Yoel had to do was claim he was using the supplement and they let him off.

And if I'm wrong on that please let me know and I will eat the crow.

But what is more likely...?

They can risk taking trace amounts of clenbuterol, get no benefit (anything over 1 ng/ml tends to be dismissed as too high for meat contamination), and still having their results written off despite not getting suspended. Otherwise they have to cover up their drug use like anyone else and hope that it's either not caught, or that they're tested when they only have trace amounts in their system.

Again, I am very skeptical that someone with Canelo's resources would risk eating contaminated meat when he knows he was getting randomly tested, but I am wholly convinced that positives as a result of tainted meat have regularly happened to athletes. I'm not a PhD chemist employed by a WADA-accredited lab, or someone who works closely to stamp out PED use, so I tend to go with their readings of the situation and what constitutes reasonable doubt. The issue with meat contamination and clenbuterol is difficult to assess and has given WADA a lot of headaches over the last decade.

 

[Final Say]

So you're saying that there's no such thing as a false positive despite the fact that the actual doctors and scientists who work for anti-doping agencies recognize their existence and specifically have an appeals and exoneration policy to deal with false positives?

I'm not saying false positives don't exist, not at all. If one athlete got caught one time and they proved similar amounts were in the meat, then I can see being lenient. But a known issue? Elite, world class athletes? Once it happens one time, your excuse goes out the window. The onus is on the athlete at this point.

And when it comes to the way anti doping organizations handle these situations, I think they're far too lenient and understanding. Again, I go back to the Yoel situation for that.

I'm a very staunchly anti-PED in contact sports, so I personally take it serious.

 

[Seano]

Fair play. A banned substance is a banned substance. I wish they hadn't chosen this fight to start enforcing this rule but it is what it is.

 

[Oscaraps]

You obviously haven't read his case

You clearly haven’t .....

 

[Seano]

The tests seem to be working. It's what happens afterward that is flawed.

Again, the onus is on the athlete. That's the end of the discussion. If Mexico is known to have this problem, then the excuse becomes even less valid.

As it stands, any athlete can take a trip to Mexico, test positive and be let off the hook by you and WADA, it seems.

i guess we have different definitions of reasonable doubt. The other case that comes to mind is Yoel Romero. He didn't prove anything, he didn't give us any reasonable doubt. But USADA let him off anyway without proof of anything, not even any proof Yoel used the supplement that was supposedly tainted. They saw that a supplement existed that contained the same substance he tested positive for. All Yoel had to do was claim he was using the supplement and they let him off.

And if I'm wrong on that please let me know and I will eat the crow.

But what is more likely...?

USADA doesn't really have power of what decision the commissions make. They just report their findings. In some cases, the commissions and USADA actually differ in the way their rules are written.

 

[dim_]

Why? Because of tainted meat?

So you can take a trip to Mexico and be exonerated of any clenbuterol positives that pop up in your piss?

USADA let Yoel off, they're fallible

No, its noit quite as simple as that. Buit according to Eichner of SMRTL levels were consistent with contamination, both in that sample and subsequent samples.

you cant just go to mexico and take clenbuterol

the numbers need to match



And usada didnt let yoel off.. and that wasnt for clenbuterol, nor was it a food chain issue, so i dont even get the relevance..