Kushner in Trouble

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EZShrimpn said:
It's actually a perfectly valid legal defense that the Special Prosecutor doesn't have the legal authority under his congressional mandate to indict people on events unrelated to that mandate. Meaning dealings with people unrelated to the Russian Government.

It's also a good reason to fire Mueller for acting like he's judge dredd.
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You need to fire Fox for telling you bullshit all day.
 
Rockapotomuss said:
What financial crimes? The Chinese and Quataris didn’t even buy his building. Are you just imagining financial crimes?
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I'm not sure if you're intentionally being obtuse for partisan reasons, or just genuinely have no idea what the scope of this investigation is.

The new look at Kushner is in regards to him trying to secure financial investment from foreign nationals before trump was in office. That is illegal. The same issues have been raised before with the trump transition team seeking financial workings with russians, again before trump took office.

I don't think you understand just how broad the special prosecutors powers are here. Pretty much, so long as a lawful investigation into one thing, uncovers crimes for another, it's fair game. Remember a special prosecutor looking at Bill Clinton's real estate investments, was able to lawfully extend his investigation into potential perjury regarding blowjobs.

It is telling that trump supporters no longer really try to deny any wrongdoing by this bunch. Instead they just kick and scream and beg law enforcement to go away.
 
EZShrimpn said:
Sure pal. I'll believe it when Hillary sees a day in court for committing a bunch of felonies related to classified material.
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You mean classified material like all Trumps people not having security clearance yet looking at top classified material?

You guys really have to look in the mirror.
 
Throttlehead said:
You mean classified material like all Trumps people not having security clearance yet looking at top classified material?

You guys really have to look in the mirror.
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Proof they are looking at TS material ?
 
Darkballs said:
I'm not sure if you're intentionally being obtuse for partisan reasons, or just genuinely have no idea what the scope of this investigation is.

The new look at Kushner is in regards to him trying to secure financial investment from foreign nationals before trump was in office. That is illegal. The same issues have been raised before with the trump transition team seeking financial workings with russians, again before trump took office.

I don't think you understand just how broad the special prosecutors powers are here. Pretty much, so long as a lawful investigation into one thing, uncovers crimes for another, it's fair game. Remember a special prosecutor looking at Bill Clinton's real estate investments, was able to lawfully extend his investigation into potential perjury regarding blowjobs.

It is telling that trump supporters no longer really try to deny any wrongdoing by this bunch. Instead they just kick and scream and beg law enforcement to go away.
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I don’t think you see the circular reasoning of saying it’s lawful for the special prosecutor to investigate anything arising from lawful investigation. If that’s true, there is no limit to his scope. You’re not suggesting there is no limit to his scope, are you?

I agree the scope is broad, but it is limited to matters “directly” related, not indirectly related. And I do not see how Kushner attempting to divest from this building he owned was either illegal or “directly” related to the investigation. If you know something I don’t about how this directly relates, please educate me.

Clinton’s case is not comparable here because perjury falls under the third part of the mandate, 28 c.f.r. § 600.4(a), which includes perjury. Kushner’s dealings here do not involve alleged pergery or anything else covered by 28 c.f.r. § 600.4(a) that I’m aware of.
 
ShadowRun said:
Proof they are looking at TS material ?
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Porter was his top staffer who brings the materials to the president, he sees all of it and has a burn box under his desk to discard it when done. Kushner is his top advisor who will see the same materials as he is solving world piece. You know Trump isn't reading his daily briefs, now if you think Kushner isn't, Porter isn't....WHO IS? The reports say 10-15 people in the administration can't get permanent security clearances, and by next week Kelly has said he will weed them out. So, John Kelly knows it.
 
No, I'm talking about specifically part ii, which after mentioning links/coordination between trump officials and Russia says: any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.

Yeah, that's a pretty broad statement. And what it means is that so long as Mueller didn't go off on a totally non-related fishing expedition, it's going to stand. Most special prosecutorial powers are written as such. Generally meaning that so long as investigating A, you uncover evidence of B, you're good. So if they looked into Jareds finances because they want to see if he got a payment from shady russians, and found in his financial records payment for a large cache of child porn, they could still investigate that, as it arose directly from the investigation. Which is why I mentioned Mueller's previous look into Kushner's finances in the last post. If they find any probable cause for any other financial related crimes in that, it doesn't matter how unrelated that crime was to the first potential crime. It certainly arose from the investigation. The only way you could argue it doesn't is if you were to say that Mueller should have never been looking at his finances in the first place. Which is absurd.
 
ShadowRun said:
Proof they are looking at TS material ?
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White House officials who are listed as not having permanent security clearances as recently as this past November include Ivanka Trump, the president's daughter and senior adviser; Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser; Dan Scavino, the president's director of social media; and Christopher Liddell, assistant to the president for strategic initiatives; according to the documents.

All four are listed as operating with interim clearances only for information classified as "top secret" and "TS/SCI," which is shorthand for "top secret, sensitive compartmented information."

A total of 34 people who started their government service on Jan. 20, 2017, the first day of the Trump presidency, were still on interim clearances in November.

Among them are White House counsel Don McGahn, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah, who had only interim clearances to access the most sensitive government information, according to the documents. Each of them had obtained permanent clearances to access top-secret materials, a lower clearance that would prevent access to information, for example, in the president's daily intelligence brief.

On the National Security Council, 10 of 24 officials listed in the documents — about 42 percent — had only interim security clearances as of November. Those officials listed as working without permanent security clearances include Dina Powell, a deputy national security adviser for strategy who left her post in January. Powell's clearance process did not begin until March 2017. Her replacement, Nadia Schadlow, joined the Trump White House in March 2017 and was still on an interim clearance in mid-November.

Rest of the article if you're interested
 
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Darkballs said:
No, I'm talking about specifically part ii, which after mentioning links/coordination between trump officials and Russia says: any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.

Yeah, that's a pretty broad statement. And what it means is that so long as Mueller didn't go off on a totally non-related fishing expedition, it's going to stand. Most special prosecutorial powers are written as such. Generally meaning that so long as investigating A, you uncover evidence of B, you're good. So if they looked into Jareds finances because they want to see if he got a payment from shady russians, and found in his financial records payment for a large cache of child porn, they could still investigate that, as it arose directly from the investigation. Which is why I mentioned Mueller's previous look into Kushner's finances in the last post. If they find any probable cause for any other financial related crimes in that, it doesn't matter how unrelated that crime was to the first potential crime. It certainly arose from the investigation. The only way you could argue it doesn't is if you were to say that Mueller should have never been looking at his finances in the first place. Which is absurd.
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Right so let’s deal with the facts we know.

1. We know they looked into Kushner’s meeting with Russians.

2. We know Kushner tried to sell his building to Chinese and Quataris.

How does 2. directly relate to 1.? If the answer is “we don’t know yet, maybe we will find out” fine. But if we do know, please explain.
 
Rockapotomuss said:
Right so let’s deal with the facts we know.

1. We know they looked into Kushner’s meeting with Russians.

2. We know Kushner tried to sell his building to Chinese and Quataris.

How does 2. directly relate to 1.? If the answer is “we don’t know yet, maybe we will find out” fine. But if we do know, please explain.
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I just did.

You're looking at it wrong. It doesn't matter if the second crime uncovered looks similar enough to the first crime. What matters is whether or not they found evidence of the second crime while within the scope of the first.

Now I'm sure you'd agree that part of investigating about coordination with Russians would include a look at finances. So if they found evidence of a second crime while looking at said finances, it's within the scope. Doesn't matter if that second crime is drug smuggling, paying for donkey shows to be hosted on a yacht, or anything else. So long as it was uncovered through financial records, they're good. And given that one of the accusations for the trump team is that they were making deals with foreign nationals before actually in office, I'm not sure how you can argue that a deal with a different foreign entity (which would likely be found through similar financial disclosures) wouldn't be something they could possible come across during their initial investigation.
 
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Reading through this thread is so cancerous. Both sides are so fucking stupid. Spending this much time bitching about politics on Sherdog is kinda weird. Do any of the regulars on here even post or read MMA threads?
 
Throttlehead said:
White House officials who are listed as not having permanent security clearances as recently as this past November include Ivanka Trump, the president's daughter and senior adviser; Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser; Dan Scavino, the president's director of social media; and Christopher Liddell, assistant to the president for strategic initiatives; according to the documents.

All four are listed as operating with interim clearances only for information classified as "top secret" and "TS/SCI," which is shorthand for "top secret, sensitive compartmented information."

A total of 34 people who started their government service on Jan. 20, 2017, the first day of the Trump presidency, were still on interim clearances in November.

Among them are White House counsel Don McGahn, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah, who had only interim clearances to access the most sensitive government information, according to the documents. Each of them had obtained permanent clearances to access top-secret materials, a lower clearance that would prevent access to information, for example, in the president's daily intelligence brief.

On the National Security Council, 10 of 24 officials listed in the documents — about 42 percent — had only interim security clearances as of November. Those officials listed as working without permanent security clearances include Dina Powell, a deputy national security adviser for strategy who left her post in January. Powell's clearance process did not begin until March 2017. Her replacement, Nadia Schadlow, joined the Trump White House in March 2017 and was still on an interim clearance in mid-November.

Rest of the article if you're interested
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I see so they have interim clearances which is normal when you are being adjudicated
 
ShadowRun said:
I see so they have interim clearances which is normal when you are being adjudicated
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It's not normal for an interim clearance to last this long. What this says is that after almost a year and a half since they applied, our intelligence agencies still aren't sure whether or not these people can be trusted with that information. And yeah, we are in uncharted waters with so many members of the president's cabinet being untrustworthy due to ongoing criminal investigations.

But hey, Trump only hires the best people.
 
Darkballs said:
It's not normal for an interim clearance to last this long. What this says is that after almost a year and a half since they applied, our intelligence agencies still aren't sure whether or not these people can be trusted with that information. And yeah, we are in uncharted waters with so many members of the president's cabinet being untrustworthy due to ongoing criminal investigations.

But hey, Trump only hires the best people.
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That's not the way that works with clearances bro but that doesn't mean they aren't factoring in the huge Russian hype.
 
ShadowRun said:
I see so they have interim clearances which is normal when you are being adjudicated
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No, its not normal, because most of them CANT get permanent clearances. This is why you will see Kelly let go some of them from their positions.
 
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