Nazi camp guards charged with hundreds of Holocaust killings

[MikeMcMann]

Many people killed many people in WW2. The British bombing of Dresden killed many innocent Germans ... should they be punished retrospectively???

Lets assume Canada suddenly declares war and attacks the US and throws everything at them (snowballs included) and does a lot of damage.

The US reacting declares war and in their retaliation they do far more damage but end the war.

Would you say the US would be justified in seeking restitution for the damage done even though the US did more damage to Canada?

 

[Gandhi]

Over a million SS members survived the war yet virtually none of them were punished at the time. Also, despite the fact we knew that the Wehrmacht cooperated closely with the SS in most aspects of the holocaust and other German war crimes we created the Bundeshwer with Wehrmacht officers in the process pardoning some of the few who were actually punished for the crimes at the time. We virtually whitewashed the Wehrmacht's culpability in the war in exchange for helping the Americans reform a German military to counter the Soviets.

Frankly its kind of sickening we gave the officer corps and their SS equivalent, those actually responsible for the holocaust and the conduct of the war, positions of power after the war while here we are 70+ years later "punishing" old men who were nothing more than our equivalent of pfcs or corporals at the time.

The problem is they weren't really "in hiding." The SS was not the only organization responsible for the atrocities in WW2 and the regular German army the Wehrmacht was complicit in almost all the atrocities of the Nazi regime, often working hand in hand with the SS, yet the leaders of the Wehrmacht after the war came away clean and even today the paltry few they are prosecuting are low ranking SS stooges who had no real power or responsibility for the decisions or actions of the military and government.

You have to look up the Himmerod memoradum and the formation of the Bundeswehr to understand why these people haven't been prosecuted until 72+ years after the war, and why almost every major German commander and leader got off virtually scot free.

After the war the German government and the allies agreed to whitewash the actions of the Wehrmacht and most of the SS in exchange for there soldiers forming a new German military to guard against the Soviets. In exchange for forming this military the West agreed to pardon most war criminals, stop prosecuting members of the military, treat the waffle-ss as regular veterans, and to present the myth of a "clean Wehrmacht."

Its only been since the late 90s, coincidentally after all the generals and high ranking officers who made this deal died and the soviets collapsed, that all off a sudden the ''clean Wehrmacht" myth has taken a hit, and the German government started finding these "hiding" Nazis and SS members.

In reality they knew the entire time who these people were and willingly let them live their lives and even gave them veterans benefits and honors in exchange for their commanders help in establishing a bulwark against the Soviets. Once the Soviets collapsed and all of the Wehrmacht higher ups died they are picking off a few dozen of the lowest ranking survivors of the SS in order to make a show like they were always dedicated to searching out and punishing these terrible criminals

For all the people knee jerking to let sleeping dogs lie, I find this to be actually a compelling argument. This is not justice but crass politics.

It’s still hard to have any sympathy for a nazis, no matter the rank. But I am just trying to imagine being 20 again in pre WW2 in the culture of humiliation that was Germany.

And now 70 years later after the leaders have gotten away with it all, being held to account for my actions becuase of political convenience.

Yeah I don’t exactly have an answer here. I get why it’s not exactly “fair” but they still did some horrible things so fuck em really.

 

[fdswer]

Many people killed many people in WW2. The British bombing of Dresden killed many innocent Germans ... should they be punished retrospectively???

Maybe the Nazis shouldn't of used their city's as centers of military industry and rallying points of offence attacks, it was a legitimate military target given the rules at the time. Using Dresden as some sort of excuse for what the Germans did in WW2 is retarded.

 

[fdswer]

These were 20 year old kids that were following orders. How would you like, 70 years down the road, to watch Americans who followed orders in Afghanistan or Iraq for example to prosecuted and incarcerated for their crimes?

Big difference in knowingly and willingly participating in a war of ethinic genocide and what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq

 

[Literally Bricked]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." - (((Jesus)))

My gardener can’t speak English.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The American Indian Wars and terrible human death from the plagues were nothing like the World Wars and methodical and meticulous genocide of the Jews.

If you feel that "certain group" aka the Jews are holding it over people, then point it out in arguments of logic, resentment of the Jews as a group is not healthy.

The Germans are a methodical, and meticulous people. Even to this day they are known for that at fields outside and far along the spectrum from genocide. It does not make the Holocaust the worst thing in history. Yet while only lasting around 6 years or so, little details are still dug up, bought to forefront, and payment is asked decades into the future. I call that milking it or "holding it over".

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Big difference in knowingly and willingly participating in a war of ethinic genocide and what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq

The question is it a "big enough" difference. How big of difference does it need to be?

 

[fdswer]

The question is it a "big enough" difference. How big of difference does it need to be?

Tens of millions difference

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

I wager those massacred outside of what occurred during the Holocaust would argue the point. Dead is dead. But if you want to play the "who had it worse" game I'll double down on Native Americans. The holocaust was an atrocity, lets be clear about that. Horrible indictment of mans inhumanity to man but lets be real as well. There has been a more consistent and aggressive push to ensure that no one forgets or overlooks what occurred or to whom. Not that such an effort isn't worthy, just that it shows what effective effort and PR can do over the long term when determined to make sure no one ever forgets.

Yes, let's ignore context and act like every tragedy is equally comparable to another. The Holocaust showed the horrible depths worse than nearly anything did in human history as to what level of depravity people can sink to in treating other humans. Causalities being caught in the middle of a war is a completely different set of circumstances.

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

These were 20 year old kids that were following orders. How would you like, 70 years down the road, to watch Americans who followed orders in Afghanistan or Iraq for example to prosecuted and incarcerated for their crimes?

lol I always laugh when people bring up these shitty arguments. What are we doing in Afghanistan or Iraq that is even remotely comparable to the Holocaust? Are we demeaning the people that live there and rounding them up and throwing them in concentration camps to starve and die/wait to be executed? No.

 

[Teppodama]

Yes, let's ignore context and act like every tragedy is equally comparable to another. The Holocaust showed the horrible depths worse than nearly anything did in human history as to what level of depravity people can sink to in treating other humans. Causalities being caught in the middle of a war is a completely different set of circumstances.

Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur, Holodomor can all be rightly counted as genocidal crime against humanity much like the Holocaust of the Jewish peoples in Europe. We can go back if you want into antiquity for further examples of genocidal slaughters. My point is that while certainly unimaginably evil and horrifying, the Holocaust isn't a singular event or example of the mass slaughter of a people. It just so happens to be tied to a world changing event, is still relatively fresh in history, has been well documented and still has enough survivors capable of relating first hand experience of what occurred to bring that horror to life in a way that simple second reporting or the cold sterility of a historical text never could.

 

[Goonerview]

Maybe the Nazis shouldn't of used their city's as centers of military industry and rallying points of offence attacks, it was a legitimate military target given the rules at the time. Using Dresden as some sort of excuse for what the Germans did in WW2 is retarded.

Nice straw man.

 

[Goonerview]

Lets assume Canada suddenly declares war and attacks the US and throws everything at them (snowballs included) and does a lot of damage.

The US reacting declares war and in their retaliation they do far more damage but end the war.

Would you say the US would be justified in seeking restitution for the damage done even though the US did more damage to Canada?

I disagree. If you've won the war. You've won.

No need to continue killing innocent people for "revenge" for what soldiers did. Continuing the cycle of violence.

 

[Goonerview]

Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur, Holodomor can all be rightly counted as genocidal crime against humanity much like the Holocaust of the Jewish peoples in Europe. We can go back if you want into antiquity for further examples of genocidal slaughters. My point is that while certainly unimaginably evil and horrifying, the Holocaust isn't a singular event or example of the mass slaughter of a people. It just so happens to be tied to a world changing event, is still relatively fresh in history, has been well documented and still has enough survivors capable of relating first hand experience of what occurred to bring that horror to life in a way that simple second reporting or the cold sterility of a historical text never could.

Jewish people largely occupy senior positions in Hollywood and the media.

That's probably why you hear more about 6 million Jews than 20+ million Russians and Chinese. Or that of other acts of genocide.

 

[fdswer]

Nice straw man.

Its not look it up its pretty well known. What about when the germans Bombed the residential areas in Rotterdam or all the other citys the germans destroyed hm.

 

[Goonerview]

Its not look it up its pretty well known. What about when the germans Bombed the residential areas in Rotterdam or all the other citys the germans destroyed hm.

So, you are saying that after WW2, Jews would have been justified in rounding up 6 million random Germans and killing them?

 

[fdswer]

So, you are saying that after WW2, Jews would have been justified in rounding up 6 million random Germans and killing them?

No but you can do the whataboutism all day it this doesn't change the fact Nazi apologists try and use Dresden as some sort of "fact" for why the allies were just as bad or to take focus off of what the Germans did. Dresden with a legitimate military target and legal under law at the time. What else are you supposed to do against a fanatical enemy that wont surrender? Wehraboos are obsessed with Dresden but its just one small action in a World War where much worse things happened.

 

[irish_thug]

I should not have started that saying. It was the wrong thing to do.

In fact I'm campaigning to have it put in your prickipedia entry.

 

[Fawlty]

In fact I'm campaigning to have it put in your prickipedia entry.

I used to have a hilarious one written by Departed. Nos got turbo gotten to and wiped it.

 

[Quipling]

I used to have a hilarious one written by Departed. Nos got turbo gotten to and wiped it.

Prickipedia?