Sexual harassment claims have gone too far.

[tonni]

If you literally ask for consent for every touch, the answer is always no and her vagina will be desert dry. I don't know about touching a random girl's ass at a bar, never really ran that play, but I don't have chicks sign a waiver either. Consent is usually non-verbal. With the guys who've been busted lately, you know it must have worked a bunch of times before or they wouldn't do it. They're creeps, but I'm sure it's worked out more than half the time for them.

they got busted at work mostly, where that behavior would be inappropriate in any case.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

wow.

what i meant to say was knowing whether or not someone wishes to be touched, is not such a blurred line. if you have any social intelligence you know this naturally, or your parents should've raised you better.

Lol.
This is such silly nonsense.

Of course it's a blurred line. Almost every sexual interaction between human beings (at least, those outside of established relationships) is fraught with blurred lines.
As long as at least a semblance of respect is maintained the blurred lines and uncertainty are half the damn fun.

You have no way of knowing without trying. You could intuit the other person's receptivity, and you may even be pretty good at it and guess right 9/10 times, but you're still just guessing and your tenth attempt might not be welcome by its recipient.

so that means that
is a useless statement and it's false in any case.

I only quoted this statement so that it could stand alone to highlight its own ironic uselessness.

 

[tonni]

Lol.
This is such silly nonsense.

Of course it's a blurred line. Almost every sexual interaction between human beings (at least, those outside of established relationships) is fraught with blurred lines.
As long as at least a semblance of respect is maintained the blurred lines and uncertainty is half the damn fun.

You have no way of knowing without trying. You could intuit their receptivity, and you may even be pretty good at it and guess right 9/10 times, but you're still just guessing and your tenth attempt might not be welcome by its recipient.


[QUOTE="tonni, post: 136043317, member: 528271"so that means that
is a useless statement and it's false in any case.

I only quoted this statement so that it could stand alone to highlight its own ironic uselessness.

Jesus, there's a reason some people never get accused of harassment, and those who do have usually been accused plenty of times. take a look at the Hollywood and politics accusations lately. most of the time, they are "serial harassers" and it's never a case of "blurred lines". Just straight up, inappropriate workplace behavior.

again, there's little to no blurred lines in basically all of these public sexual harassment cases. do not grope people without their consent (consent can be non-verbal, btw). do not make sexual advances on your (female) employees. do not stalk them, send dick pics, don't try to date underage girls when you're in your thirties...

just be a half-decent person and you'll be fine. all these people now panicking because their right to have "fun" (harass women continuously) has been taken away are really suspect and are just playing dumb imo.

you don't need to grab a pair of boobs of a woman you don't know, to know that it's inappropriate. a basic sense of morality should suffice, and being raised properly helps too.

 

[tonni]

to anyone who's confused about how to conduct themselves at work (for some reason) here's a link you should read:

http://employment.findlaw.com/employment-discrimination/sexual-harassment-at-work.html

what do you know, there's laws and guidelines you could follow.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

[POINTLESS MISDIRECTED BABBLE]

I was responding to a post about touching a woman's ass in a bar. Nothing you said in this post has any relevance.
You're doing a good job of showing me just how reliable that basic social intelligence is. Does only advanced social intelligence allow you to follow conversations?


Just to be clear, I don't intentionally engage in unsolicited groping - even touching asses at bars. That's not my wheelhouse at all and I'd probably just come across as a creepily awkward loser if I decided to start playing that game.
Nevertheless, I live in the real world and the once-off ass-grab of a woman you've met in a bar is hardly a big deal.

 

[tonni]

I was responding to a post about touching a woman's ass in a bar. Nothing you said in this post has any relevance.
You're doing a good job of showing me just how reliable that basic social intelligence is. Does only advanced social intelligence allow you to follow conversations?


Just to be clear, I don't intentionally engage in unsolicited groping - even touching asses at bars. That's not my wheelhouse at all and I'd probably just come across as a creepily awkward loser if I decided to start playing that game.
Nevertheless, I live in the real world and the once-off ass-grab of a woman you've met in a bar is hardly a big deal.

even if i was completely off the rails with my comment, it wouldn't be a lack of social intelligence, but of reading comprehension.

but i wasn't. it's easier to look at it that way and feel really smart about yourself though.

I know you're from South-Africa and it's the rape capital of the world, so maybe that's why you think it's okay to grab women's asses at bars.

 

[tonni]

Jesus, there's a reason some people never get accused of harassment, and those who do have usually been accused plenty of times. take a look at the Hollywood and politics accusations lately. most of the time, they are "serial harassers" and it's never a case of "blurred lines". Just straight up, inappropriate workplace behavior.

again, there's little to no blurred lines in basically all of these public sexual harassment cases. do not grope people without their consent (consent can be non-verbal, btw). do not make sexual advances on your (female) employees. do not stalk them, send dick pics, don't try to date underage girls when you're in your thirties...

just be a half-decent person and you'll be fine. all these people now panicking because their right to have "fun" (harass women continuously) has been taken away are really suspect and are just playing dumb imo.

you don't need to grab a pair of boobs of a woman you don't know, to know that it's inappropriate. a basic sense of morality should suffice, and being raised properly helps too.

@PrinceOfPain how is this not related to touching a woman's ass in a bar? "do not grope people without their consent" that's literally what it is. groping without consent.

how is that in any way a misdirection?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

even if i was completely off the rails with my comment, it wouldn't be a lack of social intelligence, but of reading comprehension.

Heh.
Fair enough.

but i wasn't.

You were.
I don't entirely expect you to understand that though. It would require going back, reading and comprehending.
As you correctly point out, that is an area in which you cannot be trusted.

it's easier to look at it that way and feel really smart about yourself though.

I'll take your word for it.

I know you're from South-Africa

South Africa is not hyphenated.

and it's the rape capital of the world, so maybe that's why you think it's okay to grab women's asses at bars.

We're not the rape capital of the world anymore. I think it's India now.

Thankfully, rape has gone down steadily (though, it is still a tremendous problem).
Myself and my countrymen, not to mention the countless women who've suffered the brutality of actual rape in an African country thank you for not using their suffering to make a cheap non-point about my opinion on ass-touching.

 

[tonni]

Heh.
Fair enough.



You were.
I don't entirely expect you to understand that though. It would require going back, reading and comprehending.
As you correctly point out, that is an area in which you cannot be trusted.




I'll take your word for it.



South Africa is not hyphenated.



We're not the rape capital of the world anymore. I think it's India now.

Thankfully, rape has gone down steadily (though, it is still a tremendous problem).
Myself and my countrymen, not to mention the countless women who've suffered the brutality of actual rape in an African country thank you for not using their suffering to make a cheap non-point about my opinion on ass-touching.

so you can't tell me why my post about how you shouldn't be groping people is NOT related to grabbing women's asses at bars?

maybe I shouldn't have said that about South-Africa, definitely a cheap shot.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

@PrinceOfPain how is this not related to touching a woman's ass in a bar? "do not grope people without their consent" that's literally what it is. groping without consent.

how is that in any way a misdirection?

"Misdirected" not "misdirection".
My god.

Anyway, this desperate attempt of yours just brings us back to "blurred lines".

Did you ask every person you've ever kissed if you could kiss them? Did they ask you?

 

[tonni]

"Misdirected" not "misdirection".
My god.

Anyway, this desperate attempt of yours just brings us back to "blurred lines".

Did you ask every person you've ever kissed if you could kiss them? Did they ask you?

consent can be non-verbal, so no. i've never groped anyone at bars, which is way more relevant.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

consent can be non-verbal, so no. i've never groped anyone at bars, which is way more relevant.

And what constitutes non-verbal consent? Can you define it beyond saying "you just know"?

 

[21 Savage]

I don't know about touching a random girl's ass at a bar, never really ran that play, but I don't have chicks sign a waiver either.

>I don't know about touching random girls I mean I haven't done it myself so can't really comment on it not sure if right or wrong its not my play you know?

Of course this is the position right-wingers take lol. Sad.

 

[tonni]

And what constitutes non-verbal consent? Can you define it beyond saying "you just know"?

here are some useful guidelines https://www.mcckc.edu/PDF/counseling/Verbal Signs of Consent2.pdf

It's consent that's communicated via non-verbal signals if you really want definitions, I guess.

 

[tonni]

>I don't know about touching random girls I mean I haven't done it myself so can't really comment on it not sure if right or wrong its not my play you know?

Of course this is the position right-wingers take lol. Sad.

but what *is* groping really. it's just me moving a body part such as my hand into the area where there happens to be one of your body parts, your butt! where's the line?

 

[ShadowRun]

Ha ha ha. Take that liberals.

Real presidential candidate like of you

 

[PrinceOfPain]

here are some useful guidelines https://www.mcckc.edu/PDF/counseling/Verbal Signs of Consent2.pdf

It's consent that's communicated via non-verbal signals if you really want definitions, I guess.

That absurd list you just sent kinda highlights my point about blurred lines.
I mean, it's criteria for possible non-verbal signs of consent are:

1. Direct eye contact
2. Initiating sexual activity
3. Pulling someone closer
4. Actively touching someone
5. Nodding “Yes” Laughter and/or smiling
6. Open body language
7. Active body

You don't see anything wrong with using silliness like this to determine whether or not an ass is safe to grab or a pair of lips are safe to kiss?

I mean, 2 is "initiating sexual activity" and on the possible "signs of non-consent" list, one of the criteria is "not initiating any sexual activity".
Someone has to initiate, dude.


These are "possible" signs. There is nothing definite here. Blurred lines all around.

 

[tonni]

That absurd list you just sent kinda highlights my point about blurred lines.
I mean, it's criteria for possible signs of consent are:

1. Direct eye contact
2. Initiating sexual activity
3. Pulling someone closer
4. Actively touching someone
5. Nodding “Yes” Laughter and/or smiling
6. Open body language
7. Active body

You don't see anything wrong with using silliness like this to determine whether or not an ass is safe to grab or a pair of lips are safe to kiss?

like i insinuated earlier, i think it's specifically for people with low social skills. there's also a list of non-consent signs, such as turning away in disgust, pushing your hand away etc.

you could also just not grope people in bars and use some common sense.

so you're saying that the way to go is just to grope people and see if they're okay with it?

would you also start humping people just to see if they're okay with it? how about peeing on them to check if they have a fetish?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

like i insinuated earlier, i think it's specifically for people with low social skills. there's also a list of non-consent signs, such as turning away in disgust, pushing your hand away etc.

No one that isn't very mentally challenged is getting any use out of those lists.

you could also just not grope people in bars and use some common sense.

If you were using common sense, you wouldn't be at the bar in the first place. That goes double for women.
We're talking about intentionally wrecking your own judgement while surrounding yourself with strangers who are doing the same to their judgement. It's a stupid thing to do and it requires a suspension of common sense.
This isn't about common sense.

so you're saying that the way to go is just to grope people and see if they're okay with it?

Nope.
I'm saying that human sexuality and courtship are not easily put into neatly labelled boxes. they're incredibly subjective, and filled with blind spots and blurred lines of acceptable behaviour.
I'm saying that only an idiotic and sheltered prude says "you touched a girl's ass in a bar? That's harassment!"
I'm saying that the very idea of ill-defined non-verbal consent is dangerously blurry.
I'm saying that if a person's ass is touched in a social and casual setting, its really not a big deal and if you don't like it, you can speak up and say so. Further ass-touching is probably harassment but even then, the offense that is warranted is dependent on too many variables for umbrella judgements to be made.
I guess I am also saying that the world is not made of cotton wool.

would you also start humping people just to see if they're okay with it? how about peeing on them to check if they have a fetish?

Would you only hold your wife's hand if she presented you with written permission first?

 

[Squarechoke]

It's just funny that some people have such problems with this. If you can't flirt with women without stepping over the boundaries then you just don't know how to flirt and your incompetence isn't what we base the rules on. Sorry.