Sexual harassment claims have gone too far.

[tonni]

No one that isn't very mentally challenged is getting any use out of those lists.

source?

If you were using common sense, you wouldn't be at the bar in the first place. That goes double for women.
We're talking about intentionally wrecking your own judgement while surrounding yourself with strangers who are doing the same to their judgement. It's a stupid thing to do and it requires a suspension of common sense.
This isn't about common sense.

what? can you be less vague?

Nope.
I'm saying that human sexuality and courtship are not easily put into neatly labelled boxes. they're incredibly subjective, and filled with blind spots and blurred lines of acceptable behaviour.
I'm saying that only an idiotic and sheltered prude says "you touched a girl's ass in a bar? That's harassment!"
I'm saying that the very idea of ill-defined non-verbal consent is dangerously blurry.
I'm saying that if a person's ass is touched in a social and casual setting, its really not a big deal and if you don't like it, you can speak up and say so. Further ass-touching is probably harassment but even then, the offense that is warranted is dependent on too many variables for umbrella judgements to be made.
I guess I am also saying that the world is not made of cotton wool.

no, the first time you touch her ass without her consent it's harassment already. ignorance of the law does not mean you can break it.

let's set the bar REALLY low for you. a girl is talking to her friends at the bar. she's standing with her back to you. do you really need to "check" if she wants her ass grabbed by you?

if you have a problem with this notion, that's entirely your fault. i brought up the humping and peeing as a hyperbole, of course. I just wanted to show you how you can know NOT to do certain things even when there's "many variables" involved.

you could also be really informed on how to behave yourself at work and in bars by reading up on guidelines, laws and awareness campaigns. get informed, stop being willfully confused about this because you have an agenda to push.

Would you only hold your wife's hand if she presented you with written permission first?

you don't see the difference between groping a stranger at the bar, and holding your partner's hand?

doing a non-sexual activity with your significant other vs sexually touching women at the bar?

like, i've been beyond cordial to you even though you basically insulted me every second post but it's getting hard to take you seriously when you say shit like this.

 

[tonni]

It's just funny that some people have such problems with this. If you can't flirt with women without stepping over the boundaries then you just don't know how to flirt and your incompetence isn't what we base the rules on. Sorry.

but how do you know for sure that people in the park don't want to see your penis? too many variables involved if you ask me.

 

[Son of Jamin]

The person that brought the #MeToo campaign into the limelight in Sweden by accusing a despicable journalist for rape is a skilled activist. Before she named her rapist on Instagram (the rape took place for many, many years ago) had already formed a political platform together with other left-leaning activists and registered web pages that will be used to gather women from all walks of lives under the umbrella of combating sexual crimes. Now these web pages are being heavily promoted in the #MeToo-campaign as a spur of the moment idea but in reality, they had already planned this one out.

Pretty smart move.

 

[Tycho]

you can't touch without consent.

also, you have a very shallow understanding of what sexual harassment is and you're not painting the whole story here.

the 'revelation' lately has been that (mostly) men about men in power positions sexually harassing employees/coworkers. rightfully, they have been called out on it.

women around the world are glad you left the dating scene. don't come back.

I kissed my wife on our first date, but i never asked for consent. It just happened as a result of us both being animals who were sexually attracted. I think if i had asked permission we wouldnt be together...

 

[Tycho]

It's just funny that some people have such problems with this. If you can't flirt with women without stepping over the boundaries then you just don't know how to flirt and your incompetence isn't what we base the rules on. Sorry.

I think there are two seperate issues here:

1) Millenials with poor social skills due to all that porn etc bein unable to flirt

2) This pseudo marxist thing about how a man with power hitting on someone below him equates to rape.

They should be discussed seperately imo

 

[Curmudgeon]

I kissed my wife on our first date, but i never asked for consent. It just happened as a result of us both being animals who were sexually attracted. I think if i had asked permission we wouldnt be together...

Literally wienstien!

 

[PrinceOfPain]

source?

Lol. Wow.

what? can you be less vague?

Sorry. Forgot about your reading difficulties.
Wasn't being vague. Was pointing out the stupidity of citing "common sense" with regards to people in bars.

no, the first time you touch her ass without her consent it's harassment already. ignorance of the law does not mean you can break it.

And this brings us back to the matter of consent. How often have you obtained verbal consent before making a sexual advance?
You haven't managed to respond to the question of clarity when it comes to non-verbal consent, you've simply resorted to hyperbole, as though the world is an assembly of absurd people behaving absurdly.

As I said earlier, without direct verbal cues, you cannot know that you have consent.

let's set the bar REALLY low for you. a girl is talking to her friends at the bar. she's standing with her back to you. do you really need to "check" if she wants her ass grabbed by you?

Nope. But again, this is an irrelevant example.
If you'll focus hard and go back to read the post that started this all off, you'll note that the OP specified grabbing the ass of a girl he has met. Not some random at the bar with her back to him.

If I meet a girl at a bar and we get chatting, and then after an hour or two of hanging out, we take a selfie together and I take advantage of the situation to test the waters and touch her ass, are you saying that I am sexually harassing her?
Even if she slaps my hand away and I immediately and apologetically back off?
Or what about if she's inwardly pissed off at me, but gives me no outward sign that the move was unwelcome? Was it still sexual harassment, and do I deserve to be punished?

if you have a problem with this notion, that's entirely your fault. i brought up the humping and peeing as a hyperbole, of course. I just wanted to show you how you can know NOT to do certain things even when there's "many variables" involved.

Obviously we all know not to do certain things. That's why your hyperbole is so frustratingly stupid. You refuse to see nuance or to apply the "logic" you're employing to realistic situations.

you could also be really informed on how to behave yourself at work and in bars by reading up on guidelines, laws and awareness campaigns.

This is good advice for everyone.
I think women especially could benefit from this advice.

get informed, stop being willfully confused about this because you have an agenda to push.

And what agenda am I pushing?

you don't see the difference between groping a stranger at the bar, and holding your partner's hand?

doing a non-sexual activity with your significant other vs sexually touching women at the bar?

You were being hyperbolic, I responded with hyperbole to underline the absurdity of your own hyperbole... and then you failed to recognise the hyperbole?

Are you being intentionally stupid?

like, i've been beyond cordial to you even though you basically insulted me every second post but it's getting hard to take you seriously when you say shit like this.

Nah, you've been patronising since your first response. And I haven't insulted you, just made observations.

 

[MMAViewer]

Lol. Wow.




Sorry. Forgot about your reading difficulties.
Wasn't being vague. Was pointing out the stupidity of citing "common sense" with regards to people in bars.




And this brings us back to the matter of consent. How often have you obtained verbal consent before making a sexual advance?
You haven't managed to respond to the question of clarity when it comes to non-verbal consent, you've simply resorted to hyperbole, as though the world is an assembly of absurd people behaving absurdly.

As I said earlier, without direct verbal cues, you cannot know that you have consent.



Nope. But again, this is an irrelevant example.
If you'll focus hard and go back to read the post that started this all off, you'll note that the OP specified grabbing the ass of a girl he has met. Not some random at the bar with her back to him.

If I meet a girl at a bar and we get chatting, and then after an hour or two of hanging out, we take a selfie together and I take advantage of the situation to test the waters and touch her ass, are you saying that I am sexually harassing her?
Even if she slaps my hand away and I immediately and apologetically back off?
Or what about if she's inwardly pissed off at me, but gives me no outward sign that the move was unwelcome? Was it still sexual harassment, and do I deserve to be punished?



Obviously we all know not to do certain things. That's why your hyperbole is so frustratingly stupid. You refuse to see nuance or to apply the "logic" you're employing to realistic situations.




This is good advice for everyone.
I think women especially could benefit from this advice.



And what agenda am I pushing?



You were being hyperbolic, I responded with hyperbole to underline the absurdity of your own hyperbole... and then you failed to recognise the hyperbole?

Are you being intentionally stupid?




Nah, you've been patronising since your first response. And I haven't insulted you, just made observations.

You two sound like a married couple, I'd say get a room but I'm not sure you'd know what or how to proceed after all this arguing.
ahh fuck it, call it hate sex and have at it!

 

[ultramanhyata]

this guy's idea of fun 'n funny flirting is groping women at the bar, telling 'lewd jokes' and looking at breasts

For better or worse, I can tell you there are a ton of women here in the Midwest who call that kind of behavior a great night out.

I am not "that guy" so don't really fit in with those types but I have seen it a million times.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I know you're from South-Africa and it's the rape capital of the world, so maybe that's why you think it's okay to grab women's asses at bars.

Would enjoy seeing the rape stats comparing rates between the indigenous South African population and the white Afrikaners. lol

 

[21 Savage]

That absurd list you just sent kinda highlights my point about blurred lines.
I mean, it's criteria for possible non-verbal signs of consent are:

1. Direct eye contact
2. Initiating sexual activity
3. Pulling someone closer
4. Actively touching someone
5. Nodding “Yes” Laughter and/or smiling
6. Open body language
7. Active body

You don't see anything wrong with using silliness like this to determine whether or not an ass is safe to grab or a pair of lips are safe to kiss?

I mean, 2 is "initiating sexual activity" and on the possible "signs of non-consent" list, one of the criteria is "not initiating any sexual activity".
Someone has to initiate, dude.


These are "possible" signs. There is nothing definite here. Blurred lines all around.

cant be easy having autism and having to exist in the workplace without sexually harassing girls all the time. damn blurred lines!!

 

[nostradumbass]

>I don't know about touching random girls I mean I haven't done it myself so can't really comment on it not sure if right or wrong its not my play you know?

Of course this is the position right-wingers take lol. Sad.

THAT's what you got from my post? How do figure me saying "can't comment" while you're replying to my comment? I said I don't know how anybody thought that was a good idea or how it would go well, and obviously wouldn't do it. Some things are implicit there, dipshit, and don't require me pretending to be morally outraged and blaming "right wingers" for something that has absolutely nothing to do with it at all.

Oh yeah, cause sexual harassment is a right-wing problem, you know, like all of those right wingers in hollywood getting called out for being on a rape rampage for like 70 years.

 

[21 Savage]

don't require me pretending to be morally outraged

Yeah you right, my b

I should know better than to think right-wingers would be outraged at sex crime. They are the most misogynistic wing after all.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I'm old fashioned. I've always taken time (at least a month or longer) to get to know a lady before getting physical. When my now wife and I first met we only talked for 6 months before we even held hands and kissed. Of course, one does not have to wait as long as I did, but taking time to get to know someone can save a lot of potential trouble.

 

[nostradumbass]

Yeah you right, my b

I should know better than to think right-wingers would be outraged at sex crime. They are the most misogynistic wing after all.

I apologize in advance if you're actually retarded, but you seriously took me specifically saying I wouldn't do something, and in your head, that somehow turned into "you must think sex crimes are good". Simply stunning.

 

[CauseImbetta]

Sexual harassment no longer seems to mean what it once meant. It used to mean that you did something sexual against someone's will beyond the point of rejection. So if I met a girl at a bar and I touched her ass, if she told me no and I continued to do it... that's sexual harassment.

Now it is if you even TELL a girl that you think she is sexy and you'd like her number... if she doesn't feel comfortable with your comment you just sexually harassed her. Or if you make a lewd joke, that can be sexual harassment. If you look at a girls breasts, that is sexual harassment.

I am 100% opposed to someone pushing a woman beyond the point of a rejection. If you have been rejected, move on. Leave her alone. Continuing to push her after she's told you to bugger off, that is at least harassment and depending upon the content of your interaction it could be sexual harassment. However, things that are being called sexual harassment are not always sexual harassment.

I am glad I am no longer in the dating scene, because I can't imagine having to be concerned about flirting. Flirting is extremely fun, and being flirtatious is a good way of not just finding out if a girl is interested in you but it is also a good way of building interest. If you're fun and funny in a teasing and sometimes sexual way it can go a long way at making you appealing to a woman if there is any level of mutual attraction. But these days I cannot imagine having to worry about testing the waters in a flirtatious way because you might find that the person you're testing the waters with will be a hypersensitive cunt that has bought into this "almost everything a man does related to sex is a power play and you're a victim of it" mentality and cry sexual harassment which can have serious negative effects on your life.

New world feminist order where anything is sexual misconduct and gender doesn't exist.

 

[Fawlty]

I kissed my wife on our first date, but i never asked for consent. It just happened as a result of us both being animals who were sexually attracted. I think if i had asked permission we wouldnt be together...

This. With the caveat that work and certain other formal/professional environments are off the table, women tend to like men who are physically forward when they want them to be forward. And the signals are not always clear. Asking permission for a kiss or physical contact is a serious turnoff a lot of the time.

 

[Mike Hagger]

Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

I see where there are some issues in this country, no doubt.

Apparently the most left leaning place, Hollywood not only condones this, but the women will not speak about it for decades.

Outside of powerful/rich people, has sexual harassment & or rape statistics increased in the US?

 

[21 Savage]

I apologize in advance if you're actually retarded, but you seriously took me specifically saying I wouldn't do something, and in your head, that somehow turned into "you must think sex crimes are good". Simply stunning.

>downplays sex crime
>tries to backpedal when called out

 

[franklinstower]

Doesn't one have to know that an action will be unwelcome or create an environment of intimidation in order for it to qualify as harassment?

If so, touching someone's ass only qualifies as harassment after you know that they do not want their ass touched.

If you dont know that going in then dont do it man..... its that simple. Also go ahead and keep doing it if that's what you want but you are on the wrong side of history and despite what the degenerate fucks on this planet will tell you this is NOT recent history.

My father witnessed a man harassing a woman once-- it was pretty mild-- no touching-- just inappropriate language. My father threw him out the fucking window (ground floor). When the guy came back in to fight my dad he threw him back out that same window. I was taught to take out the trash in a similar way.

Its time for REAL men to take degenerate fucks to heel on this bullshit. Cant be done over the internet aside from just shaming people that are wrong but with trolls and all that shit this is probably not the best place for it. Its with our friends and acquaintances that we need to take a stand against bullshit and stupidity.