***The Official SANCTIONED Gennady Golovkin vs Vanes Martirosyan RBR Thread 11PM EST HBO***

[PUO3]

Yeah I remember when it first 'came out' in the media people were saying that it made you loads stronger and it was really anabolic but the reality is it's just a dieting aid, not nearly so sexy.

Its got its benefits but folks thinking its some miracle drug are just misguided.

 

[PUO3]

Ok, so you admit that being at a lower bodyfat before starting a cycle is beneficial, glad we agree.

Way to tuck tail.

 

[dembones22]

Lol. Youre googling trying to present an argument. Youre also the person who thinks Clen is anabolic in humans.

Ill go ahead and clear that up for you. Clen’s anabolic effects were tested in rats (and found to be minimal). Rats have Beta 3 receptors which allows this. Humans do not have those. There is no anabolic benefit in humans.

Ill play along with your bodybuilding.com search though. Given when Canelo was popped for Clen, youre telling me that he was going to start a cycle.....?

Good luck starting a cycle before or during a training camp when Team Canelo agreed to testing beforehand.


Does that sound like cycle situation to you ??

 

[PUO3]

Good luck starting a cycle before or during a training camp when Team Canelo agreed to testing beforehand.


Does that sound like cycle situation to you ??

My point exactly. Not to even mention the timing would be completely stupid.

 

[PUO3]

Anyway, hell of a combo by Golovkin last night. That was smooth.

 

[dembones22]

They only tested specifically for clenbuterol. It doesn't clear him of any potential PEDs he also could've used prior as part of a stack.


Promoter: Hair test shows Canelo Alvarez wasn't intentionally taking banned substance

They test for banned substances just like with piss test. Clenbuterol is a banned substance among others, so yes clenbuterol is one of the things the tested for in the follicle test.



.

 

[dembones22]

My point exactly. Not to even mention the timing would be completely stupid.

That other poster is on your side. You caught him out of context, I think.

 

[nastyleft]

and yet he's never accidentally ingested any of that bad meat in his previous 50 fights, and managed to fail the first time they tested him in mexico, a bit earlier than usual. he's also not randomly tested year-round.

you see, it could be from accidental ingestion. it could also be from a pharmacist's fuckup. if he was enrolled in year round random testing by VADA, i'd feel a lot more comfortable with his explanation. since he isn't, it's perfectly reasonable for me to assume he's a dirty cheat. if he isn't tested during his suspension, i have absolutely no reason to just assume he isn't roiding himself to the tits. therefore, his potential victory is tainted, as far as i'm concerned.

Why would a victory be tainted now, he would be OFF the stuff in a rematch, right?
FWIW, I happen to know Canelo has been living here in San Diego since the Floyd fight. Apparently this may have been an extended stay where he had to test while down in Mexico. Diet and regional food differences? Who knows........

 

[dembones22]

Anyway, hell of a combo by Golovkin last night. That was smooth.

Props to GGG. He took some shots in the first round but handled his business in the 2nd.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

They test for banned substances just like with piss test. Clenbuterol is a banned substance among others, so yes clenbuterol is one of the things the tested for in the follicle test.



.

You have a legitimate source on this? I don't mind waiting.

 

[nastyleft]

What's your first language? I'm genuinely interested in other cultures. Being a white dude who can only speak English is fucking boring.

Ask @Marc A I think he's the guy I annoy with questions the most. Btw Marc, I have an 8 day streak on my duolingo acct and I'm killing the level 1 basics. Which means I'm probably gonna speak better Spanish than you in like 3 weeks.

Probably, @Marc A speaks Dominican....

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Im a Clenelo fan (and a rustled, disappointed one at that).

He used it, broke the rules and was caught.

That said, Ive used Clen. Been around it a lot. Its not all that exciting or incredibly effective. People talk about it based off of what they read on the internet. Now folks want to write Canelo’s career off as if it was produced solely by a lab. Its all rather overblown.

Thats not to downplay that he did use a banned substance. Just that the tales of Clen are overrated.

Again, if someone even just looks at something as simple as the wikipedia for clen, it is clear how it would benefit an athlete, specifically in a weight cutting sport. If you think he did it, there is no minimizing its effects.

You are saying the timing is useless? Lol wtf, you using this stuff before knowing what it does? No offense man, but I am not taking the word of someone who has used steroids for non medical reasons. If you have such an inflated ego that you need 3rd party factors to inflate yourself, then that is that.

What does NOT make sense about bulking up in the off season, then cutting down, during the 8 week training camp before a fight? Moreover, it has respiratory effects. As per https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Clenbuterol-Effects :

"However, this original intent, while very useful to those who suffer from asthma, it can also be extremely useful to performance enhancing athletes; especially those who participate in heavy cardiovascular activity. Runners, cyclist and any other endurance athletes regularly supplement with Clen for its ability to improve breathing; after all, for such individuals how well they breathe is the end all be all."

Yea, like using it leading up to a training camp, maximizing your cardio base, and then carrying that over into the training camp for a fight isnt beneficial?

Or butting on a bunch of mass in the off season, and then tweeking it down leading up to a training camp, maximizing the strength and power benefits?

Are people really this dense? It is one thing if you truly believe it was accidental ingestion, but if you believe he used it and was caught, but the minimize its benefits? Yea, just NO.

 

[dembones22]

You have a legitimate source on this? I don't mind waiting.

I'm going to dinner. Hit up the NSAC.

They were not looking for just Clen when they did the piss test. What makes you think they were looking for just clen in the follicle test ??

 

[PUO3]

Again, if someone even just looks at something as simple as the wikipedia for clen, it is clear how it would benefit an athlete, specifically in a weight cutting sport. If you think he did it, there is no minimizing its effects.

You are saying the timing is useless? Lol wtf, you using this stuff before knowing what it does? No offense man, but I am not taking the word of someone who has used steroids for non medical reasons. If you have such an inflated ego that you need 3rd party factors to inflate yourself, then that is that.

What does NOT make sense about bulking up in the off season, then cutting down, during the 8 week training camp before a fight? Moreover, it has respiratory effects. As per https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Clenbuterol-Effects :

"However, this original intent, while very useful to those who suffer from asthma, it can also be extremely useful to performance enhancing athletes; especially those who participate in heavy cardiovascular activity. Runners, cyclist and any other endurance athletes regularly supplement with Clen for its ability to improve breathing; after all, for such individuals how well they breathe is the end all be all."

Yea, like using it leading up to a training camp, maximizing your cardio base, and then carrying that over into the training camp for a fight isnt beneficial?

Or butting on a bunch of mass in the off season, and then tweeking it down leading up to a training camp, maximizing the strength and power benefits?

Are people really this dense? It is one thing if you truly believe it was accidental ingestion, but if you believe he used it and was caught, but the minimize its benefits? Yea, just NO.

I dont think youve followed the whole conversation, or are misinterpreting.

I said he used and was caught, and its cheating.

I said that the benefits of Clen are often overblown.

I said that using Clen at the time he was caught in an effort to start an anabolic cycle would not make sense.

I didnt say that using Clen when he was caught was useless.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I'm going to dinner. Hit up the NSAC.

They were not looking for just Clen when they did the piss test. What makes you think they were looking for just clen in the follicle test ??

If they put him through the full battery of tests (full range/spectrum of detectable PED substances through the follicle) then how come this hasn't been reported? What has been reported is that he was tested for Clenbuterol specifically and it wasn't present in his hair samples that were collected by the NSAC and handed over to a WADA-accredited lab. The NSAC shouldn't have been collecting his hair samples in the first place but that's another story.

The Nevada commission collected hair samples from Alvarez on March 29 and they were tested at the Sports Medicine Research & Testing Laboratory, a WADA-accredited lab in Salt Lake City, Utah, Bob Bennett, the commission executive director, told ESPN.

The results document, which was provided to ESPN, was returned on April 20 with a single note in the section reserved for analysis details: "Hair sample tested for clenbuterol. Clenbuterol was not detected."

Promoter: Hair test shows Canelo Alvarez wasn't intentionally taking banned substance

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I said that using Clen at the time he was caught in an effort to start an anabolic cycle would not make sense.
.

This is what I don't get in your reasoning. Why is it the start of an anabolic cycle? What does not make sense about maximizing your cardio and lean muscle mass 3 months before the biggest fight of your career, against someone most thought you lost to?

Even if he is coming off of a cycle. It isn't like he is going to take a month off, and not be in the hardest training camp of his career. He is going to carry almost all of that benefit into the ring, if he maintains his training, which he obviously was going to.

 

[PUO3]

This is what I don't get in your reasoning. Why is it the start of an anabolic cycle? What does not make sense about maximizing your cardio and lean muscle mass 3 months before the biggest fight of your career, against someone most thought you lost to?

Even if he is coming off of a cycle. It isn't like he is going to take a month off, and not be in the hardest training camp of his career. He is going to carry almost all of that benefit into the ring, if he maintains his training, which he obviously was going to.

Someone else mentioned that its used prior to starting a cycle to get the body fat % down.

Being that far out from the fight would not carry the benefit into the ring. The testing results and timing dont add up.

(This is solely discussing whether its related to an anabolic cycle or not.)

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Someone else mentioned that its used prior to starting a cycle to get the body fat % down.

Being that far out from the fight would not carry the benefit into the ring. The testing results and timing dont add up.

(This is solely discussing whether its related to an anabolic cycle or not.)

Lol, why would someone want to cut down their body fat before a cycle, when they would use that fat as fuel to increase muscle mass? That makes absolutely no sense, especially in regard to this scenario.

I think you should not take posters on an internet forum so seriously, and just wikipedia or google the drug and make an informed decision. or watch youtube videos of people involved in sports giving their expert opinion... over sherdog posters.

 

[Seano]

If I can speak on Sean's behalf here, I don't think he dislikes GGG the man, he just fucking hates his fans. So what he does is kinda downplay GGG a little b/c GGG doesn't have a style that Seano naturally likes, as well as the added benefit of trolling said GGG fans whom, as mentioned, he hates.

I've seen Seano give compliments to GGG. He's sold on the fighter. It might've taken him awhile to be sold on the fighter, but he is. What he never will be is nice to GGG fans. He doesn't like us, so he mocks us and messes with us, and probably over criticizes GGG b/c he knows all of us nut huggers will get angry, and he finds that to be a fun hobby.

He did it with my guy Matthysse for years, b/c Matty doesn't have a style he's super fond of, but also us Matty fans can be pretty outspoken b/c Matthysse is awesome and we want the world to know. Pac fans, Loma fans, it's not the fighters he dislikes as much as the fans he dislikes. Which is why he seems overly critical at times of a fighter, he knows that he's gonna get shit for it and he doesn't mind that one bit.

Am I on the right track here @Seano ?

 

[dembones22]

If they put him through the full battery of tests (full range/spectrum of detectable PED substances through the follicle) then how come this hasn't been reported? What has been reported is that he was tested for Clenbuterol specifically and it wasn't present in his hair samples that were collected by the NSAC and handed over to a WADA-accredited lab. The NSAC shouldn't have been collecting his hair samples in the first place but that's another story.


Promoter: Hair test shows Canelo Alvarez wasn't intentionally taking banned substance

Canelo allowed them to take a hair sample because he has nothing to hide. He is the one who wanted drug testing and yes this is an embarrassing circumstance so he was willing to do what it takes to prove his innocence.


He was suspended because as a fighter you are responsible for what goes into your body intentional or not. So while the substance was ingested unintentionally he was still found to have it in his system.


The hair folicle test proves he was not anything within 90 days ( up to ) of test date. Proving the trace amounts are in line with meat contamination.



You dont have to believe it. But the test happend and its clean. And Canelo is still suspended.


Why didn't they report the full battery they did in the piss test. They reported what they found not what they didnt. In the folicle test they found nothing but mentioned nothing also included Clen as that was the drug he had tested pos for previously.



. They are testing for PED's.