Thoughts on Rickson's BJJ/Self Defense claims?

[yetanother]

It's a phase, people will learn to avoid the heel hook (still waiting for the best in the world to show me how). Leandro Lo was able to avoid Craig Jones's heel hooks but gave up is back doing it.

I think that sub only mixed with overall fight dominance evaluated by judges may be the answer.

It's not sub only with judges, it's a judge base competition. That's a ruleset I want to compete in the least. I don't even view anything judge based as a real sport.

 

[JagRoss]

My white belt student told me that if someone attack on the streets. He will sit down and HH him via DDS style.

Single leg—>pull SLX—>sweep—>HH = Ez win

 

[JagRoss]

Elephant in the room:

Martial arts are not about self defense or staying safe. It is 100% about honor and being a "belligerent buffoon" or standing up for what you believe in.
The people who invented these martial arts would break someones arms and legs or cut off heads with a sword over an insult and often did.

Now, many years later in a politically correct world people argue that it's all about getting home safe no matter the cost to your ego.

You can try to sell classes to soccer moms and pacifists that way but it is not historically accurate.

Go back in time and insult a young Helio Gracie or Kimura let alone a Samurai and try to run roughshod over him, I promise he will not buy you a drink.

You would have to fight him, beyond groveling you wouldn't get out of it and that would be judged harshly.

You don't live in some honor society where your life depends on your honor.

If someone challenges you to a duel...walk away.
No one will know, and no one will give a shit.

 

[yetanother]

You don't live in some honor society where your life depends on your honor.

JohnSouth does. He lives in some weird action movie dimension.

 

[jack36767]

JohnSouth does. He lives in some weird action movie dimension.

If JohnSouth really lived in Cincinnati he’s get shot if he acted like he claims

 

[Rjay]

It's a phase, people will learn to avoid the heel hook (still waiting for the best in the world to show me how). Leandro Lo was able to avoid Craig Jones's heel hooks but gave up is back doing it.

People will adapt to heel hooks better yes, but in that particular example you cited the whole basis of Jones' game, use other attacks to set up heel hooks, and use heel hooks to set up other attacks. He's not a one dimensional grappler.

Agree you need the judges. Not a fan of pure submission only, it practice is actually removes jiu-jitsu even further away from it's martial art roots.

 

[DatCutman]

Actually, he was saying that Gracie jiu jitsu and it's self defense policy and no emphasis on sport bjj is its own downfall.

No, what he said is that he trains sport BJJ as a sport, and he likes the sport, and to keep self-defense concerns out of his sport.

But hell, if you think sport bjj is turning into tkd....why not?

I think there is a danger that by focusing more on the sporting aspect than the practical aspect, you start to reduce an arts combat efficiency. I know everyone's just going to scream "WELL THEN GO TRAIN MMA" as loud as they can, but BJJ used to be synonymous with MMA. At least when I started training in the 90s.

then I would think that specific gjj schools have turned into aikido.

I don't think you're wrong. There are GJJ schools that don't spar, and you may as well put on the magic pants at that point.

Well anyway, I happily teach sport bjj and it by product or if you want to call side effects is that you can submit trained resisting opponent.

Honestly sport BJJ victories seem to come by way of sweep points or advantages than submissions. If you look at the submission rates in IBJJF events over the years of gi grappling, they are consistently going down.

 

[mattemate]

You don't live in some honor society where your life depends on your honor.

If someone challenges you to a duel...walk away.
No one will know, and no one will give a shit.

JohnSouth does. He lives in some weird action movie dimension.

If JohnSouth really lived in Cincinnati he’s get shot if he acted like he claims

@JagRoss You seem new here. JohnSouth was one of the best albeit short-lived trolls in the history of F12. He told ridiculous stories about fights he'd been in. He came across as some weird hybrid, an alpha incel of sorts. Someone here doxxed him (he was some weirdo white supremacist IIRC, and John South was his actual fucking name), and he stopped posting altogether. Dude was a total douchebag joke.

 

[lechien]

No, what he said is that he trains sport BJJ as a sport, and he likes the sport, and to keep self-defense concerns out of his sport.



I think there is a danger that by focusing more on the sporting aspect than the practical aspect, you start to reduce an arts combat efficiency. I know everyone's just going to scream "WELL THEN GO TRAIN MMA" as loud as they can, but BJJ used to be synonymous with MMA. At least when I started training in the 90s.


I don't think you're wrong. There are GJJ schools that don't spar, and you may as well put on the magic pants at that point.


Honestly sport BJJ victories seem to come by way of sweep points or advantages than submissions. If you look at the submission rates in IBJJF events over the years of gi grappling, they are consistently going down.

For me gjj is the fighting art that could transfer to vale tudo hence Gracie challenge and the first UFC.

Bjj is the sport and therefore there is no danger to loose whatever.

The amount of subs in ibjjf is not my concerns. At Pinnacle of a sport, it is not surprising to see people milking a ref decision. They do the same in UFC .

 

[cheachea]

If you can find this DVD series it has some good stuff :

I posted the first DVD that goes over basic clinches and take downs but it isn’t, available anymore for some reason. Here are the 2nd and 3rd DVD’s though:




The closest thing to it would be Gracie Combatives Series:

http://secure.gracieacademy.com/categories/dvds/GSD-GCDVD.html

 

[cheachea]

These series are also good if you can find them :






I found most of these on Ebay.

 

[Gandhi]

First of all, Rickson has been in real street fights and MMA fights and its Rickson, I think he knows a thing or two more than you about what works and what doesn't, despite him trying to market his brand of JJ.

Secondly, the purple belts that you use X guard on are giving you expected and familiar movements and reactions. A thug will be giving unexpected and unorthodox movements whilst trying to break your face.

Not to mention a lot of weekend warriors and average joes are in the sport JJ scene. The scene that Rickson came from were rough and tough fighters who threw down anywhere at any time.

if I can x gaurd sweep a brown belt in bjj, a normal gi will fall over the second he is put into the position.

It even works on zombies btw

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/bjj-fort-he-zombie-apocalypse-with-stephen-kesting.2575515/

 

[Gandhi]

I think he is just saying in a fight the environment is different and that modern bjj forgets about the control required for dealing with strikes. You see bjj matches all the time that if strikes were involved would change everything and force people to train different. That is all he is saying. He isn't trying to say bjj does not work but competition has been making it lose it's focus of promoting safe positions instead of bjj promoting not ideally safe positions but great positions for grappling within the rules.

Yea I really see both sides to it. Many Bjj sport guards just don't have the utility to transfer as well against a trained mma fighter. From that side of it I see the perspective. At the same time having some experience in those things would help your mma game, just more leverage options. And really Rickson's point and the way he harps on it is really zzzzzzz. It's become a sport, argue for some rule changes maybe, but we don't have old school boxers reeeee'ing over how it's not realistic enough. If he wants bjj to be more street realistic he should start with what it is missing, not what it has added, namely wrestling MT, judo, boxing, and leglocks. Yes a stripped down bjj may be better for fighting than countless hours on half butterfly x donkey gaurd, but that's because you will actually spend time learning how to fight (ok trolling here). Btw I'm a former mma guy who loves gi now.

 

[JagRoss]

For all the hate that knife/gun disarm techniques get, if BJJ has taught me anything—it's that people can get really good at things.

I've never trained disarms, but I would imagine someone who spent 10 years doing shock knife training would escape from a knife situation a higher % of the time than someone with no experience.

 

[Chungungo]

Keep in mind that one of Rickson´s brothers once in Río or Sao Paulo had to pass the keys of his car while the instructor of a guy I used to train when I was into BJJ knocked a criminal in a favela with a double leg (ohhhh sport technique) and a kick in the head (soccer kick, sport move too !!! ) instead of ground and pound so the basics are there, unless a sport guy stays to the core he can defend himself.

 

[TehGwarch]

JJ is going in the wrong direction, too many useless moves...we need fewer techniques and more focus.

At my gym there is an "MMA class", the only BJJ you do there is closed guard, break posture, punch block, a little half guard, some gator rolls or top subs and that's it. It's already a lot of techniques to remember.

Imagine if people just focused on those things...maybe they'd have time for striking and they'd be able to set up a triangle from closed guard in an MMA fight.

Doesn't matter how good you are at X guard...one could argue that closed guard is not a great position either but sometimes you get stuck there.

Still, you have to wonder why someone can't bottle what Sakuraba did and sell it. lol

 

[yetanother]

...maybe they'd have time for striking

Why should I train striking? For mma it's obviously mandatory but doing MMA seems stupid if you won't ever be a UFC champion. I don't want do compete in anything with strikes. Why would I ever want brain injury? I don't plan on any street fights either, there doesn't seem to be anything to win in those. For MMA I believe a Ryan Hall style wizardly game is a lot better than the old crap. Forcing inefficient things from bad positions or against people who just want to survive is super hard.

 

[cheachea]

Maybe bjj schools should add light slaps to mimic a real fight and strike awareness. I don’t mean power shots that hurt or anything, just light taps for focus on blocking while practicing the Gracie Combatives 4 Stage Punch Block Drill.

 

[JosephDredd]

@JagRoss You seem new here. JohnSouth was one of the best albeit short-lived trolls in the history of F12. He told ridiculous stories about fights he'd been in. He came across as some weird hybrid, an alpha incel of sorts. Someone here doxxed him (he was some weirdo white supremacist IIRC, and John South was his actual fucking name), and he stopped posting altogether. Dude was a total douchebag joke.

Holy shit, that sounds amazing. Can anyone link me to the thread?

 

[mattemate]

Holy shit, that sounds amazing. Can anyone link me to the thread?

@AgonyandIrony where you at bro? Find us that mug shot! Also I found some of the storm front stuff. Clearly the same guy.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/search.php?searchid=21595444