Are school shootings simply the result of capitalism?

[Squish II]

While that's a fair point, the method still isn't the issue.

I want to kill a bunch of students. I don't have an assualt rifle.

I do have a truck I stole.

I will wait for them to leave school en mass while they are all nicely bunched up at a street corner waiting for that first light to change and I will plow into them en mass, likely killing as many as this guy did.

Stop me.

I think that different methods attract different people. Someone who would shoot up a school may not want to run people over as it doesn't have the same appeal as shooting someone. Maybe its not just the killing but the feeling of being able to walk around gunning down helpless people. School shootings happen a lot in America so i think that's what comes to the shooters mind as some sort of fantasy that they decide to act out.

 

[HIMBOB]

The fix isn't in stopping people from killing with guns...it's from stopping people from killing.

Why do students NOW who always had access to guns want to kill and destroy other students...NOW.

This wasn't a problem with our culture or society 20-30 years ago. What's changed? Solve the motivation and you solve the problem.

Ignore the motivation and focus purely on the method and you get nowhere.

Do you apply that same thinking to things like theft, welfare fraud, tax evasion, speeding or any other crime?

 

[Eazy123]

No...while guns ARE a factor, guns are way down the list of issues here.

When you have a kid threatening to shoot up a school for months and even the students are like "yeah he'd be the one to shoot us haha" and not even the FBI does anything, you don't have a gun problem. You have an apathy problem.

I dunno about anyone here but if some asshole said he was gonna kill me for months, and I do nothing and he does kill me, I'd sure as shit hope that people held me accountable just as much if not more than guns.

Now that's not to say blame the victims, but if they knew someone was such a threat, their parents as well as the FBI should have taken action.

The second my kid comes home and says someone threatened to shoot up his school and that shithead was posting pictures of himself with guns online, I'd ask the school what the plan was and if they didn't have one I'd pull my kid's little ass out of that school if need be.

Parents need to be more involved in their kids' lives, and people need to take these threats more seriously.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

We need to bring back insane asylums because "mental health" is largely bullshit and the treatments are random prescriptions that benefit big pharma more than patients. Violence is a natural human behavior, simply saying someone is "mentally ill" because they did something violent is lazy, and defining of a society that wants to fix a problem as quickly and cheaply as possible, while maximizing profit. That's why "mentally ill" get sent to private prison or prescribed medication with highly questionable efficacy (and also carries a black label suicide warning for anyone who doesn't read the drug info inserts on their prescriptions). More telling is that any national discussion on the subject is simply used a political rallying tool, either to deflect blame from big political donors (NRA) or to call for more government on issues that don't even have much to do with the problem.

Here’s another genius who just makes his own definitions on what is and what isn’t mental health

 

[hillelslovak87]

The why do you need weapons to protect against tyranny if you are saying members of law enforcement/military wouldn't turn on us?

I asked him the same question. Have yet to receive a reply.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

School shooters are almost always young males who have some form of mental issues (on the autism spectrum, ADHD, FAS or whatever) whom also have a history of being bullied often along with a rough family life/upbringing.

It's quite sad actually, many of these people were outcast and bullied by their peers due to their 'oddness' or quirks (caused in part due to their mental illness/disorder). Their mental illness and sometimes physical traits (short, skinny, unattractive, unkempt appearance) make them prime targets for bullying.

They become bitter, angry, they pent up their rage and some of them eventually lash out at society as a whole. They flip humankind the bird.

Not to victim blame, or excuse their crimes. Just saying, I don't think many people are born with this fate. Their circumstances lead to it. You never really see handsome socially adjusted young men who do these things, nor do you see pretty females do it. Why would they ? They enjoy their lives, they have fun. It's always the meek 'odd' male who is a 'loner' who ends up snapping.

That's what happens here. That's my take. You can take it or leave it.

I really think you're correct, I was a fucking RADICAL leftist at a young age because it gave me a sense of purpose and validated self hatred and loathing.

Looking back it's what made me a good comedian though. Our struggles define us.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

The why do you need weapons to protect against tyranny if you are saying members of law enforcement/military wouldn't turn on us?

If they turned on us, I highly doubt it would be wholesale. Besides, if they were willing to do that, then that is when I die like a man. Whats the saying? It's better to die on your feet, then live on your knees?

 

[nhbbear]

I made this post in the Florida thread, and thought maybe it deserved it's own.

I'm pretty sure that it is a widely accepted fact that while household firearm ownership has been dropping, gun sales have been up in the last 30+ years because fewer people are stockpiling more and more weapons than they used to. I have seen arguments that this was the result of a marketing campaign by the gun industry (in response to falling household ownership (profits) in the 70's) to target their hardcore buyers by offering more options, interchangeable parts, colors, specialty guns, etc., creating a fetish of sorts.

I don't think anyone would disagree that we live in a hyper-consumeristic society, and, along with social media and the Internet, ultimately leads us to shorter and shorter attention spans. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this would then result in a much higher prevalence of compulsive behaviors. These people then seek treatment, and voila, we have a significant portion of the population on psychotropic medications.

You now have a portion of the population who are big time gun enthusiasts/borderline fetishists, have 2-second attention spans, are OCD, and on some kind of behavior altering medications.

Whether it's romanticizing guns in Soldier of Fortune magazines, adding a new colorful handle for the "sport shooting" crowd, Doctors prescribing meds, pharma corporations pushing those meds, or consumerism in general, it's all driven by the desire to improve the bottom line. Capitalism.

So is capitalism partly to blame?

While I feel you embellished quite a bit, there is a kernel of truth here. But it is far more complicated than this. You touched on the romanticizing of firearms, and I think that is the heart of the part where you were on to something. Television and movies, Ali g with video games teaches us that guns are cool, as well as the innate need to be able to protect ourselves and our families and belongings, we want firearms because they are cool and fun to shoot. Hell, even just holding a firearm causes a stir of emotions and a feeling of both power and a rush of fear similar to watching a scary movie because you know you are holding something truly dangerous.

Another factor is political. People take the 2nd very seriously and the thought of someone telling them they can or can’t own something causes some to buy guns for fear that they could be banned or restricted, and also to say “fuck you, I will buy firearms i don’t even need just to prove the point that I can, and you can’t stop me!”

 

[emax]

While I feel you embellished quite a bit, there is a kernel of truth here. But it is far more complicated than this. You touched on the romanticizing of firearms, and I think that is the heart of the part where you were on to something. Television and movies, Ali g with video games teaches us that guns are cool, as well as the innate need to be able to protect ourselves and our families and belongings, we want firearms because they are cool and fun to shoot. Hell, even just holding a firearm causes a stir of emotions and a feeling of both power and a rush of fear similar to watching a scary movie because you know you are holding something truly dangerous.

Another factor is political. People take the 2nd very seriously and the thought of someone telling them they can or can’t own something causes some to buy guns for fear that they could be banned or restricted, and also to say “fuck you, I will buy firearms i don’t even need just to prove the point that I can, and you can’t stop me!”

So do you feel that American gun ownership is inherently reprehensible or do you feel that even with as many Americans as we have owning guns it would be less of a problem if more Americans changed their relationship with guns? I would think that even the majority of NRA types understand conceptually that guns are not toys in any sense of the manner; that said, maybe it really is only a small minority that has the issues here.

 

[esotamoc]

Which is fine and it's your country you make the rules .

Some things l like about the way you do things but mostly I like our way, but this is where I was born and raised.

I love traveling and respect my host when I am there but I love home best as they say.

That's fair.

 

[tonni]

We need to bring back insane asylums because "mental health" is largely bullshit and the treatments are random prescriptions that benefit big pharma more than patients. Violence is a natural human behavior, simply saying someone is "mentally ill" because they did something violent is lazy, and defining of a society that wants to fix a problem as quickly and cheaply as possible, while maximizing profit. That's why "mentally ill" get sent to private prison or prescribed medication with highly questionable efficacy (and also carries a black label suicide warning for anyone who doesn't read the drug info inserts on their prescriptions). More telling is that any national discussion on the subject is simply used a political rallying tool, either to deflect blame from big political donors (NRA) or to call for more government on issues that don't even have much to do with the problem.

How do you think treatment in an insane asylum looked like? That part of your post seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the rest of what you said, and you've made no attempt at explaining it either.

Insane asylums were absolutely worse on destructive treatment and treated their patients as medical experiments. They were also very eager to use as many psychotropic drugs, a lot of them experimental, as they possible could.

You either made a mistake or are incredibly uneducated.

By the way, these people had been labelled mentally ill before they committed mass murder, not after the fact. It just happens that irrational rage and violent tendencies are a symptom of certain mental illnesses.

 

[emax]

Are the rare mass shootings from capitalism better then the hundreds of millions dead from Communist genocides?

First, social media platforms and the internet would theoretically exist in a non capitalistic landscape -- as would people having more time to view them - psychotropic drugs could be more prevalent in a demand side society because people would have access to them without needing the funds to do so.

And every developed world with high standards of living employs capitalism and materialism (take it youve never been to Switzerland) and they dont have the prevalence of school shootings.

Nah. We've lived in a capitalist society for how long? And when has there been a massive spike in school shootings?

When I was a kid, we romanticized guns at least as much as we do today. At LEAST. We used to be able to buy realistic looking toy handguns right next to the barbie dolls.

You wait another 15 years when all of these safe space weirdos have kids in school with your kids. Its going to be worse.

Close, but I'd say it's not so much that these kids are autistic, ADHD, etc. but that they've been prescribed mind altering drugs because of this supposed diagnosis.

We need to consider not prescribing psych meds to children.

Australia has more than 25 guns per 100 people and you have more guns now than you did before the confiscation.

The fix isn't in stopping people from killing with guns...it's from stopping people from killing.

Why do students NOW who always had access to guns want to kill and destroy other students...NOW.

This wasn't a problem with our culture or society 20-30 years ago. What's changed? Solve the motivation and you solve the problem.

Ignore the motivation and focus purely on the method and you get nowhere.

No...while guns ARE a factor, guns are way down the list of issues here.

When you have a kid threatening to shoot up a school for months and even the students are like "yeah he'd be the one to shoot us haha" and not even the FBI does anything, you don't have a gun problem. You have an apathy problem.

I dunno about anyone here but if some asshole said he was gonna kill me for months, and I do nothing and he does kill me, I'd sure as shit hope that people held me accountable just as much if not more than guns.

Now that's not to say blame the victims, but if they knew someone was such a threat, their parents as well as the FBI should have taken action.

The second my kid comes home and says someone threatened to shoot up his school and that shithead was posting pictures of himself with guns online, I'd ask the school what the plan was and if they didn't have one I'd pull my kid's little ass out of that school if need be.

Parents need to be more involved in their kids' lives, and people need to take these threats more seriously.

No. There's people that are bat shit insane. And while some of the more recent diagnosis that any shy person has aspergers is silly there are still crazy people.

Look at the Question Mark Killer? His life long use of false mutism wasn't merely beta male, incel behavior. He was facking nuts and needed full time care at a mental institution.

There's a long list of crazies that did horrible things. So while, yes, big pharma is big business let's not be naive and pretend mental illness does not exist.

I could argue this, but I'm willing to cede the point if you're willing to follow my logic here:

If I'm right, gun control alone will not have the effect people want in the time frame that they want it. For example, if the popular "assault weapons ban" goes through, I think people are going to be very disappointed at the results. And they're not going to say, well, here are your guns back. They're going to say, OK, then we need to take all your guns. And that's not going to work either. Just like it hasn't worked in Chicago, just like it doesn't work in the gun free zones that are public schools.

Yeah you can. Without that iPod you can't get on the internet, plus they're kind of expensive. It directly affects the little world people have themselves in. I'm not saying society would be perfect without it, but we're just seeing the opening phases of how societies can be affected via the internet. Maybe I'm just all doom and gloom, but we are talking about a mass shooting where multiple people saw the warning signs a mile away, even authorities, yet did nothing.

What I am wondering, for the posters arguing on the side of gun rights, what do you make of the idea that the gun lobby is encouraging menaces to society such as the Vegas, Texas and Florida shooter to get guns so that they can have more money? I mean, I don't believe the NRA is as huge an influence as the militant anti 2nd Amendment crowd says. In fact as far as lobbying groups go there near the bottom of the list in terms of what they give to politicians. The political leaders who want gun rights, I feel, are first and foremost answering to the constituents who elected them. That said, I do think if it is widely accepted that gun companies want the likes of Nikolas Cruz to have guns since they want money from it, that could be enough to sway public opinion enough to repeal the 2nd Amendment. What do you make of this contention?

 

[ShinkanPo]

They're what happens when your country is fucking backwards enough to let kids have automatic weapons before they can even legally drink a beer.

Is there any other purpose for an assault rifle than to kill as many people as possible in a short timeframe?


but but but don't worry, the good guys have guns too! Yeehaw!

America watches too many movies and does too many drugs.

So it seems the legal drinking age should be lowered? I think in the US its 21 and in Germany 16? I think it should be 15

 

[machidafan99]

I didn't mention guns in my post. I was arguing for mental health facilities and a reassessment on how to intern crazy people that turn into legal adults.

I don't have any guns. The laws in my state are very restrictive so I never bothered. But since you brought this up here's my view.

You're never taking away the guns from Americans. The criminals have them, the crazies have them so one should be able to protect themselves from them.

America is kinda crazy but you're not changing it.

What I am wondering, for the posters arguing on the side of gun rights, what do you make of the idea that the gun lobby is encouraging menaces to society such as the Vegas, Texas and Florida shooter to get guns so that they can have more money? I mean, I don't believe the NRA is as huge an influence as the militant anti 2nd Amendment crowd says. In fact as far as lobbying groups go there near the bottom of the list in terms of what they give to politicians. The political leaders who want gun rights, I feel, are first and foremost answering to the constituents who elected them. That said, I do think if it is widely accepted that gun companies want the likes of Nikolas Cruz to have guns since they want money from it, that could be enough to sway public opinion enough to repeal the 2nd Amendment. What do you make of this contention?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I mean, I don't believe the NRA is as huge an influence as the militant anti 2nd Amendment crowd says. In fact as far as lobbying groups go there near the bottom of the list in terms of what they give to politicians.

The nra has turned their backs on gun owners countless times, fuck them. They state something at first slightly on favor of looking into that bullshit bill 5992 and then later oppose it and use it to drum up membership and funding.

I don't think gun companies want a guy like this using their guns for a mass shooting. Sales don't go up unless politicians make a hard push for things. Like only bump stock and binary triggers went up after Vegas. Gun and ammo sales didn't. They likely won't go up this time either.

Repeal of the 2nd isn't happening.

 

[Tiny]

What I am wondering, for the posters arguing on the side of gun rights, what do you make of the idea that the gun lobby is encouraging menaces to society such as the Vegas, Texas and Florida shooter to get guns so that they can have more money? I mean, I don't believe the NRA is as huge an influence as the militant anti 2nd Amendment crowd says. In fact as far as lobbying groups go there near the bottom of the list in terms of what they give to politicians. The political leaders who want gun rights, I feel, are first and foremost answering to the constituents who elected them. That said, I do think if it is widely accepted that gun companies want the likes of Nikolas Cruz to have guns since they want money from it, that could be enough to sway public opinion enough to repeal the 2nd Amendment. What do you make of this contention?

The argument I have is that we live in an age now where people don't need to get guns legally to go kill someone.

Say I want to kill a shit ton of people...sure it would be super easy to just go buy a gun...or hop into a truck...

Next level of difficulty down would be to acquire a gun ILLEGALLY. (which negates any gun laws you wanna fight for) And is that really that difficult? I want a gun. I want to avoid gun laws...I go buy a gun illegally...or STEAL a gun from a relative or friend. Or again...I just hop into a truck. Or I can be a real bastard and build a home made bomb. What I'm trying to say here is that technology has gotten to the point where I don't really need a gun to kill lots of people.

So then people will still die...because you haven't addressed the reason as to WHY AM I MOTIVATED TO KILL PEOPLE? That's the real issue here.

 

[Tiny]

I think that different methods attract different people. Someone who would shoot up a school may not want to run people over as it doesn't have the same appeal as shooting someone. Maybe its not just the killing but the feeling of being able to walk around gunning down helpless people. School shootings happen a lot in America so i think that's what comes to the shooters mind as some sort of fantasy that they decide to act out.

My theory is that big pharma has more and more people hooked on heavily addictive mood altering drugs.

At least I would think that's a great place to start looking as to why people have gone more bat shit crazy.

 

[mike sherry]

Absolutely, yes.

Most non surprising answer in this troll thread....

 

[MikeMcMann]

edit double

 

[MikeMcMann]

NO its the fetishism of this victim culture by the left.

You are powerless, you are a victim, you are being held down and are hopeless to overcome.

Keep telling enough people stuff like that and you are sure to get more crack than making them feel empowered to rise above their challenges.

My parents came to N.America when things were far more challenging as minorities and bettering yourself was far more difficult due to blatant racism and yet they never, NEVER, used that as an excuse and always said everyone has challenges to get over. You just do it.