LMAO. What is reality?

[Fox by the Sea]

Cool. So then this dude competes against women:
View attachment 1002340

And this woman rolls with men?
View attachment 1002341

got it.

bro you use "cis". nobody using that can be taken seriously lmao.
and you probably think you're smart posting some crossdressers when here we're talking about biological sex as being determinant.

 

[DoctorTaco]

bro you use "cis". nobody using that can be taken seriously lmao.
and you probably think you're smart posting some crossdressers when here we're talking about biological sex as being determinant.

the dude with the beard was born a woman. The chick in pink was born a man. By the rules you’re suggesting, that’s who they’d roll against.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Bro, I am THIS close to calling your gym and telling them all the shit you say on the interwebs!

*wolves howl in the distance*

 

[Fox by the Sea]

the dude with the beard was born a woman. The chick in pink was born a man. By the rules you’re suggesting, that’s who they’d roll against.

nature made the rules when it created sexes. tough shit if some weirdos are left behind.

 

[DoctorTaco]

nature made the rules when it created sexes. tough shit if some weirdos are left behind.

huh?

 

[winterbike]

feels over complicated and unnecessary. Much simpler to let women grapple with trans women as long as they agree before hand.

The trans crowd is batshit insane right now and won't hesitate to be violent or try to destroy someone's career if they arbitrarily feel like there's a hint of ''transphobia'' (whatever that is) somewhere. That puts a lot of pressure on women to accept to roll with dressed-up men even though they don't feel like it. It's unfair, and like Quebec Nick says, it discourages them from competing at all.

 

[winterbike]

Cool. So then this dude competes against women:
View attachment 1002340

And this woman rolls with men?
View attachment 1002341

got it.

Except these 2 don't compete. FtM trans people basically never compete in sports against men, and if they do they don't win anything. MtF seem to overwhelmingly do it so they can bully smaller weaker women and win in a repugnant manner.

Here's an actual example of a trans person competing, I'll let you guess which one he is:

And here's Lia Thomas, a dude formerly ranked 400something when competing against other males, destroying women records by unknown margins. He even easily beat an olympian in another race.



This is the kind of absurdity you want to support?

 

[DoctorTaco]

Except these 2 don't compete. FtM trans people basically never compete in sports against men, and if they do they don't win anything. MtF seem to overwhelmingly do it so they can bully smaller weaker women and win in a repugnant manner.

Here's an actual example of a trans person competing, I'll let you guess which one he is:

And here's Lia Thomas, a dude formerly ranked 400something when competing against other males, destroying women records by unknown margins. He even easily beat an olympian in another race.



This is the kind of absurdity you want to support?

im just talking about jiu jitsu, a sport with weight and ranking classes. If a trans woman’s hormones and T levels are within the regular scope of a cis woman, they’re matched up by weight and rank, everyone knows and everyone agrees then I don’t see the problem.

 

[Quebec Nick]

The trans crowd is batshit insane right now and won't hesitate to be violent or try to destroy someone's career if they arbitrarily feel like there's a hint of ''transphobia'' (whatever that is) somewhere. That puts a lot of pressure on women to accept to roll with dressed-up men even though they don't feel like it. It's unfair, and like Quebec Nick says, it discourages them from competing at all.

It's basic safety

Biological male don't have the same bone density, they are more explosive, the weight distrubution... even while taking hormones

It's either not fair like in swimming, athletics, weightlifting...

But anykind of contact sports makes it dangerous, even basketball or soccer so imagine in hockey, grappling, wrestling...

That's sad for the trans community but there's no way that they can become women enough to compete with other woman without an advantage

Women divisions is an handicaped division, the handicap is being a woman with the bodytype, the strenght, the agressivity of a woman.

Trans woman may look like woman but they will never be as much handicaped for women sports

It's like considering putting in a guy with 2 legs against guys with one leg in the paralympics

 

[Quebec Nick]

im just talking about jiu jitsu, a sport with weight and ranking classes. If a trans woman’s hormones and T levels are within the regular scope of a cis woman, they’re matched up by weight and rank, everyone knows and everyone agrees then I don’t see the problem.

Still, the bone density, the muscle mass... It's not only the weight that is the matter

And women division have less divisions, super Heavy starts at 180 LBS, so any heavyweight girl will have to go against a couple of trans 220LBS guys...

In the NCAA it's happening, a trans guy who was middle of the pack in the man division becomes a top contender almost all of the time, and there's no T levels testing... we just believe in that new woman


Just leave girls sports alone

 

[Quebec Nick]

Except these 2 don't compete. FtM trans people basically never compete in sports against men, and if they do they don't win anything. MtF seem to overwhelmingly do it so they can bully smaller weaker women and win in a repugnant manner.

Here's an actual example of a trans person competing, I'll let you guess which one he is:

And here's Lia Thomas, a dude formerly ranked 400something when competing against other males, destroying women records by unknown margins. He even easily beat an olympian in another race.

In the states you have scholarship attached to this, Olympic standards...

It can ruin the life of those women
This is the kind of absurdity you want to support?

 

[DoctorTaco]

Still, the bone density, the muscle mass... It's not only the weight that is the matter

And women division have less divisions, super Heavy starts at 180 LBS, so any heavyweight girl will have to go against a couple of trans 220LBS guys...

In the NCAA it's happening, a trans guy who was middle of the pack in the man division becomes a top contender almost all of the time, and there's no T levels testing... we just believe in that new woman


Just leave girls sports alone

muscle mass feels like a non issue bc anyone can lift weights and get stronger, and if you’re taking it into consideration then you’re opening a giant can of worms when it comes to jiu jitsu competitors and PED’s.

I’ve heard the bone density argument but I’m not sure how that would help in jiu-jitsu. Regardless, studies have shown that taking T blockers and estrogen lead to losing bone density in trans women so given enough time from starting hormone therapy to competing even that wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Quebec Nick]

muscle mass feels like a non issue bc anyone can lift weights and get stronger, and if you’re taking it into consideration then you’re opening a giant can of worms when it comes to jiu jitsu competitors and PED’s.

I’ve heard the bone density argument but I’m not sure how that would help in jiu-jitsu. Regardless, studies have shown that taking T blockers and estrogen lead to losing bone density in trans women so given enough time from starting hormone therapy to competing even that wouldn’t be an issue.

Maybe in some way we can make sure that it's safe for a trans man to compete in the woman division, that all the levels are figured out and tested

You can surely ''qualify'' as a woman at some point during the transition

But that's so far from the conversation right now, there is no agenda on this, it's ultra liberals that just want to prove that they can get along with this.

That they can make organisations so scared to be seen as non progressive that they will accept anything, like depriving women from the opportunity to play competitive sports in a fair and safe way

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

oh come on man

you got rage baited

that match is from NAGA

it was in the absolute bracket, hence the size difference

NAGA policy with trans competitors is such that bio females can agree or disagree with the match ahead of time

both competitors agreed

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST

your clip cuts out before the smaller competitor wins the match with a vicious high elbow guillotine

if a bio female refuses a match with a trans female (a bio dude), could that impact the bio female's ability to win/rank in a tournament? I'm just curious how it would work if a bio female and trans woman end up in the finals/semi-finals and there is a refusal

 

[DoctorTaco]

Maybe in some way we can make sure that it's safe for a trans man to compete in the woman division, that all the levels are figured out and tested

You can surely ''qualify'' as a woman at some point during the transition

agree. There’s a way to make sure that things are fair and equitable for everyone

 

[shunyata]

if a bio female refuses a match with a trans female (a bio dude), could that impact the bio female's ability to win/rank in a tournament? I'm just curious how it would work if a bio female and trans woman end up in the finals/semi-finals and there is a refusal

You'd have to check with NAGA but I think they needed the consent of every competitor in the bracket and there was no negative effects if a match was refused.

 

[DoctorTaco]

You'd have to check with NAGA but I think they needed the consent of every competitor in the bracket and there was no negative effects if a match was refused.

perfectly reasonable

 

[ChickenBrother]

Maybe in some way we can make sure that it's safe for a trans man to compete in the woman division, that all the levels are figured out and tested

You can surely ''qualify'' as a woman at some point during the transition

But that's so far from the conversation right now, there is no agenda on this, it's ultra liberals that just want to prove that they can get along with this.

That they can make organisations so scared to be seen as non progressive that they will accept anything, like depriving women from the opportunity to play competitive sports in a fair and safe way

agree. There’s a way to make sure that things are fair and equitable for everyone

You'd have to check with NAGA but I think they needed the consent of every competitor in the bracket and there was no negative effects if a match was refused.

While there might be an equitable way to do this, I seriously question if it is attainable. Are they going to require all trans women to be under a T-level maximum? Require them to maintain that level for a minimum period to lose the residual effects of having been a man? It would be like USADA-style protocol for all trans women and I don't see any organization stepping up to pay for that. Will all trans-competitors be required to pay for their own testing? Good luck getting that mandated.

Even if you adjust for the physiological differences (which I don't see getting enforced any time soon), you still have the social differences in upbringing between the two genders. A trans woman who grew up as a boy would have been treated as a boy, had the opportunity to compete on the boys wrestling team, been around other boys doing boy things, among which are contact sports and combat sports in particular, much more so than girls.

Most Judoka, BJJers and some wrestlers have rolled with women in training. The chasm between the average trained man and his female counterpart is fucking enormous. Like an elite female will get owned by a diligent male hobbyist at the same weight because the male advantage in explosion and strength is all but insurmountable barring an equally insurmountable skill disparity. I'd argue the difference between the average trained woman and the average trained man is greater than the difference between a natty trained man and a same weight dude blasting PEDs.

So unless you control for these disparities (not likely), you're putting normal women in a position they shouldn't be. It's like Sterling or Anthony Smith getting blasted in the face with an illegal knee and being given the "choice" to continue or not. That's a lose/lose decision. For normal women, that's a choice between 1) Facing opponents with anywhere from a small to an insurmountable physical edge OR 2) being labelled an out of touch bitch, losing friends, scholarship, etc.

 

[shunyata]

Bro, I am THIS close to calling your gym and telling them all the shit you say on the interwebs!

woah there, no need to go full wolfman on taco

 

[mattemate]

Still, the bone density, the muscle mass... It's not only the weight that is the matter

muscle mass feels like a non issue bc anyone can lift weights and get stronger, and if you’re taking it into consideration then you’re opening a giant can of worms when it comes to jiu jitsu competitors and PED’s.

OK, let's set the record straight on something. This is where a comprehensive background in REAL science comes in.

Have you ever wondered why on average a man is stronger than a woman of the same size and muscle mass, even if they both train? There's a reason for it, and it cannot be changed, no matter what one does.

You have to look at a cross section of muscle and have a basic understanding of muscle contractions in order to get the point I'm making here.


The reason that a man is on average stronger than a woman with the same muscle mass is that within the fassicle of a muscle he will have a greater number of smaller muscle fibers. This gives an overall greater surface area to male muscles. Specifically, there are more actin and myosin fibers in male muscles of the same mass as female muscles, and that means more myosin heads, which are the "oars" that cause the muscle contraction. How many more?
Given the same muscle mass, a man will have about 30-40% more actin-myosin filaments than a woman. This is due to the fact that men have a higher proportion of smaller, more powerful muscle fibers. These fibers have more actin and myosin filaments, which are the contractile units of muscle.







Let's look at the numbers for weight lifting.



These are the closest weight categories for powerlifting available for comparison. These women are about 7% heavier than the men, but the men are 47% stronger. Read that again. Men are 50% stronger than women. With the greater number of filaments in addition to the anatomical differences, the major factors are accounted for. No amount of hormones or surgeries will ever change this, as the number is set at birth. Read that again. The number of muscle fibers within a muscle is set at birth. Humans cannot grow new muscle fibers, and cannot lose existing muscle fibers.

Men are stronger than women. We all know that, but now you know why.