PWD 1006: UnVaxxed, You Axed Edition

[Smigg]

That's kind of the issue, not every guy needs a gimmick. WWE has fucked itself with the 50/50 week to week booking and made it impossible to push someone like Cesaro in to the title picture. If he did, it would be through some bullshit like the Money In the Bank which puts over the brand more than the wrestler.

It's not that Cesaro couldn't be the guy, it's that WWE doesn't know how to book these days. You tell stories through the booking, not by having the most unique personality or gimmick. A good champion honestly doesn't even need a gimmick, they are either a heel that makes opponents look good, or they're "excellent wrestlers" who can have consistently great matches with a wide range of opponents.

I keep on saying it, but the bane of my life as a wrestling fan is the "really good wrestler" gimmick. Here's this guy, he's a really good wrestler... and here's this guy, he's also a really good wrestler... watch them do the really good wrestling at each other to see who is the most gooder wrestler!

 

[Slick_36]

I'd like to see a lot of these guys in AEW but not right now, lets work with what we got and let some storylines develop and play out with the guys that are already there
Then next summer when things need to be freshened up a bit, you future endeavor some people(never root for people to lose their job but Big Tony has to make some cuts eventually) and bring in a new fresh group of talented guys like Rush, Bandido, Mance Warner, Scarlett, a couple NXT guys(I dont know who the good ones are) and get some hot storylines going to take you through All Out and Double Or Nothing

AEWs biggest problem is they have a tendency to rush things and get to the blowoff too quickly, lets let things simmer a bit and play with the toys we have for awhile instead of trying to do everything at once

I think they're learning in that regard. They probably felt the need to prove themselves in the first couple years and when there hasn't been serious investments made yet, it's easier to hotshot the fancy new thing. They've definitely had a problem with signing too quickly and I honestly think WWE has been strategic in their cuts to bloat AEW's budget.

 

[sleepwalk]

No it’s Adam Sandler acting out him “beating “ someone up. The skits range from janitor, cafeteria lady, Spanish teacher.
It’s from the album “They’re all gonna laugh at you”

Lol. I know. The "Are these people exercising or having sex" sidewalk interviews was a bit on either that album or Stan and Judy's Kid.

 

[Slick_36]

I keep on saying it, but the bane of my life as a wrestling fan is the "really good wrestler" gimmick. Here's this guy, he's a really good wrestler... and here's this guy, he's also a really good wrestler... watch them do the really good wrestling at each other to see who is the most gooder wrestler!

Yeah, I remember seeing Bryan Danielson get that exact criticism for years before he even signed with WWE.

 

[Slick_36]

I think Cesaro is also one of those guys who couldn't give a shit about collecting belts and being a "top guy". I think I remember people saying "He should have gone to AEW" when he signed a new deal with WWE, like it's like some promised land where he would have been inserted straight into the title picture.

But, in the grand scheme of things, Cesaro has no real reason to leave at this point. He gets to wrestle, most of his friends are in WWE, probably would make more money, and when it's all said and done, will probably be slotted into the performance centre.

I'll agree with a lot of this. I think Cesaro was someone to build the Intercontinental title around in the way they had it on Bret Hart or Randy Savage. You can always expect a great match and holding the belt too long doesn't hurt the overall roster.

Good matches, simple clear storylines, and something tangible to fight for. They need that desperately. The gimmicks sell tickets without titles, which is why they fucked up the Fiend so hard. All they needed was for him to do creepy shit every few weeks, then they see merch sales and throw the title on him. Just as quickly Goldberg steps out of the retirement home and squashes him, completely killing the gimmick and the reign.

How would Cesaro do in AEW? I look at Miro, he's in a similar place on the card, but he feels completely different. Simplifying things and letting the wrestlers tell more of the story in the ring will do wonders for a "generic good wrestler". I don't blame the guy whatever he does, but you'll never convince me that he was used to even half his potential in the WWE. Luckily he's been paid well for it.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

<Lmaoo>

 

[Smigg]

I'll agree with a lot of this. I think Cesaro was someone to build the Intercontinental title around in the way they had it on Bret Hart or Randy Savage. You can always expect a great match and holding the belt too long doesn't hurt the overall roster.

Good matches, simple clear storylines, and something tangible to fight for. They need that desperately. The gimmicks sell tickets without titles, which is why they fucked up the Fiend so hard. All they needed was for him to do creepy shit every few weeks, then they see merch sales and throw the title on him. Just as quickly Goldberg steps out of the retirement home and squashes him, completely killing the gimmick and the reign.

How would Cesaro do in AEW? I look at Miro, he's in a similar place on the card, but he feels completely different. Simplifying things and letting the wrestlers tell more of the story in the ring will do wonders for a "generic good wrestler". I don't blame the guy whatever he does, but you'll never convince me that he was used to even half his potential in the WWE. Luckily he's been paid well for it.

WWE ignore the most simple of narrative structure. The Todorov Narrative Structure, it's the absolute bare bones of telling a story.

- Equilibrium
- Disequilibrium
- Action
- Conflict
- Resolution/Hegemony

If you boil down WWE storytelling, it's Equilibrium, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict... okay, bored of this now, reset it back to Equilibrium. There's no reason to invest, because they're fighting over nothing, and just ends for no reason.

 

[Frank23]

 

[Batjester]

Cesaro's best stuff has always been when he's part of a tag team, We the People, The Bar. He's just bland.

 

[Slick_36]

WWE ignore the most simple of narrative structure. The Todorov Narrative Structure, it's the absolute bare bones of telling a story.

- Equilibrium
- Disequilibrium
- Action
- Conflict
- Resolution/Hegemony

If you boil down WWE storytelling, it's Equilibrium, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict, Conflict... okay, bored of this now, reset it back to Equilibrium. There's no reason to invest, because they're fighting over nothing, and just ends for no reason.

Excellent post, I wish I could give it more than one like. It's just insane to me that the top promotion lacks such a basic fundamental of a business that is all about telling stories. Or that a "good wrestler striving to prove they're the best" is not the base of almost every story in pro wrestling.

Like I get it when you're selling "sports entertainment" and it's a soap opera/variety show. But I grew up on the Japanese stuff. The work itself was enough of a story, but two guys with little character just trying to prove they're the best could lead to some really heated stories when built the right way over time.

Jealous friends, underdogs having to prove they aren't flukes, or an old dog fighting for his spot against a new breed. All three can lead to desperation that makes good men do bad things. That's what the title picture ultimately should always be outside of a heel that's doing it for the money or vanity, and even then that needs to be done sparingly so it means something.

Pro wrestling now is more like an unhealthy form of therapy to work through issues rather than a sporting competition with the goal of becoming #1. It needs more of the latter to mean anything though.

 

[deezy]

I think Cesaro is also one of those guys who couldn't give a shit about collecting belts and being a "top guy". I think I remember people saying "He should have gone to AEW" when he signed a new deal with WWE, like it's like some promised land where he would have been inserted straight into the title picture.

But, in the grand scheme of things, Cesaro has no real reason to leave at this point. He gets to wrestle, most of his friends are in WWE, probably would make more money, and when it's all said and done, will probably be slotted into the performance centre.

His biggest and most prolific pushes in his career were always in tag teams, even on the indies.

That's his wheel house, I been trying on many a forum over the years to get people who always pretend to think he's the greatest ever to try get Cesaro standing ovations after one of his good to great matches so he could atleast get the Benoit title run as a "thank you for all you've done for us" moment.

 

[Smigg]

Excellent post, I wish I could give it more than one like. It's just insane to me that the top promotion lacks such a basic fundamental of a business that is all about telling stories. Or that a "good wrestler striving to prove they're the best" is not the base of almost every story in pro wrestling.

Like I get it when you're selling "sports entertainment" and it's a soap opera/variety show. But I grew up on the Japanese stuff. The work itself was enough of a story, but two guys with little character just trying to prove they're the best could lead to some really heated stories when built the right way over time.

Jealous friends, underdogs having to prove they aren't flukes, or an old dog fighting for his spot against a new breed. All three can lead to desperation that makes good men do bad things. That's what the title picture ultimately should always be outside of a heel that's doing it for the money or vanity, and even then that needs to be done sparingly so it means something.

Pro wrestling now is more like an unhealthy form of therapy to work through issues rather than a sporting competition with the goal of becoming #1. It needs more of the latter to mean anything though.

What makes it worse is, they spend nearly $2,000,000 per year on "Hollywood" writers, and this is what we're provided with. We all remember the one who got shit-canned because she went on a podcast and said "I don't know anything about it, I think the World Champion is Bobby Ashley, or Lashley, something like that. I do know he was in a group called 'The Hurt Business' and their whole thing was that they were suits and are like "We're cool!" she didn't have the decency to even learn the WWE Champion's name, and she's just one. There's the guy who pitched a match where Vickie Guerrero is placed under a swinging axe, another one pitched a Nazi Cyborg called "Baron Von Bava"... with Paul Heyman as his manager.

So, we combine a group of 30 people who don't know what they're doing, and the guy at the top then saying "I hate all of this" and rewrites everything himself an hour before the show.

It's also doesn't help that they're using tropes that are over 20 years old, whilst trying to be modern and progressive and the two can't co-exist. Case in point, the whole "Wrestler X opens the show with a promo... he's interrupted by Wrestler Y... they start arguing... oh, well this is our main event tonight!" Why is the main event being booked during the show?! It's the main event, that's the thing we should know about before the show. They were doing that in 1998, there's no excuse to do it now, especially when they have a website, a YouTube, Social Media, and their own network.

The worst thing it's actually VERY easy to come up with ideas for wrestling.

 

[deezy]

Yeah, I remember seeing Bryan Danielson get that exact criticism for years before he even signed with WWE.

Funny how he actually got over only after he started hugging a 7 foot guy in a red mask and leotard and doing skits with a psychologist.

 

[squirrelynuts]

Lol. I know. The "Are these people exercising or having sex" sidewalk interviews was a bit on either that album or Stan and Judy's Kid.

I forgot about that skit. You’re correct, the working out or having sex is on Stan and Judy. I think that was the last album of his I bought I rather enjoyed his “What the Hell Happenened to Me”.
With Ode to My Car being a new driver anthem to his Excoted Southerner meets…. Which will leave you in stitches. Also had the track “Is this Sex or is it Weightlifting “ skit which is also another classic

 

[deezy]

What makes it worse is, they spend nearly $2,000,000 per year on "Hollywood" writers, and this is what we're provided with.

Outside of that one comedian a year or two ago, who was only a patch up joke writer. I still never see any of these "Hollywood writers" who weren't fans before accepting a job there.

FFS they had Patrice O'Neal as a writer for them at one time.

 

[Slick_36]

Funny how he actually got over only after he started hugging a 7 foot guy in a red mask and leotard and doing skits with a psychologist.

Again, I blame bad booking and WWE conditioning people to give a shit about everything but the wrestling itself. Dude is fucking killing it in AEW with the "I want to prove I'm the best" gimmick.

 

[monkeypuncher]

Caught last night’s ufc fights. Chandler Vs Gaethje is FOTY candidate for me . That was an epic battle and I wanted it to continue for another 2 rounds lol. I was thoroughly entertained.
Usman vs Covington went as I expected 5 round all out war. Wanted more blood lol

Watched Fast and Furious 9 , that was cheesier than a Winnipeg Cheese Festival. Somewhat entertained but wouldn’t recommend it lol

How was everyone’s else’s Saturday?

I worked a 12 hour night shift on Saturday. Just now saw that Gaethje /Chandler fight, what a war! There's gotta be another one. Hope the rest of the card was this good.

There'sa Winnipeg cheese festival?!

 

[Frank23]

 

[squirrelynuts]

So what happened with Ivilesse in AEW? One moment she’s ranting and raving how there the best on her socials and the next she’s saying they’re garbage and she no longer wrestles for them . She bipolar? I seem to remember her causing shit in LU as well with Jack and Angelico..

 

[squirrelynuts]

I worked a 12 hour night shift on Saturday. Just now saw that Gaethje /Chandler fight, what a war! There's gotta be another one. Hope the rest of the card was this good.

There'sa Winnipeg cheese festival?!

Gaethje vs Chandler could fight 20 times and I’d pay to watch every time. Those 2 had an excellent scrap, one of the best I’ve seen in awhile.

Yeah, there is. It’s like how Ottawa and Quebec have a festival to celebrate winter , called Winterloo